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NI Assembly Elections - A rerun of the GFA referendum?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭mehico


    Not sure why or how this is illuminating, the local dialects are now extinct in most parts of Ireland and many of those are gone well before the 1970's. Anybody that wants to learn Irish now is mainly using a standardised version of the language.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    This is extraordinarily over-baked stuff. To say that the relative prominence of the Irish language in public documentation and signage “has an impact on many parts of life”, to the point where apparently people without Irish could be left stranded at a bus stop with absolutely no idea where they are is just wild hyperbole. Any cases of that would be so infinitesimally small that it is ludicrous to posit it as a problem.

    I mean, have you ever been abroad? European countries are a patchwork of languages and people get by just fine. I lived in Belgium for a while and it really doesn’t take long to figure out where you’re going even when you cross the linguistic border and there isn’t a whole pile of bilingual signage — sure, the name Anvers might catch you out if you’re looking for a train from Liège to Antwerp, or maybe people think Bruxelles Midi sounds about right for Brussels Central, but mankind did not make it to the Moon by such matters overcoming his wit. Jesus, if anything, having bilingual signage in Ireland is probably educational for young people to understand how when they go abroad they might have to be savvy about linguistic differences from English.

    There is no rush for Irish language legislation in the North, it’s literally been talked about for years and been impeded by irrational anti-Gaelic sentiment. Far from being a rush, the length of time it has taken to even get conceptual consent from the Unionists is a disgrace. And to repeat — the Act is supported by the middle ground Alliance too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I was watching C4 news and there was an MP Colin from Bournment (i think) as i only got interested half way in... He was speaking live from Washington and the convedrsation was about protocol with a ton of documents in hand... That was only an hour ago and because i do not understand i expect people here may know what this about...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭farmerval


    Another opportunity for them to demonstrate that the people of Northern Ireland are not their main concern. They're definitely going all in on the intransigence bus.

    Talk about stamping their feet and demanding their own way. How long before Boris pulls the rug again. All the threats in recent days from Liz Truss and Gove are the normal "there's nothing off the table in what we might do" absolutely nothing concrete of what they will do, which will be nothing.

    Just about every negative economic indicator mentions Brexit as part of the problem. No way is Boris going to make it worse by actually taking action.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Boris has his job done... but i expect it will if happen if the protocol prevails the fallow on automatic so we will see... its the only realistic option long term...

    MM and Leo want it so lets do it now...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,718 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Watched the Nolan Show last night with Sam McBride and Alison Morris.

    There is some lie being told by all 3 tbh.

    They all claim the DUP/TUV got a mandate on the Protocol.

    Yet the main me4ssaging from the TUV was about Michelle O'Neill becoming First Minister and an immediate Border Poll from the DUP...i.e. they ran a scaremongering campaign in which the Protocol was secondary and of course none of them mentioned the 5 point plan from the DUP which they had no intention of implementing.

    Nolan parroting Jamie Bryson's 'legal' points as fact too was a disgrace really.

    The media in NI cannot be trusted to be impartial, even the BBC.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,391 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    It's not over baked at all. READ the Official Languages Act 2003 instead of supposing what's in it. The essential message as regards all public bodies, signage etc is that Irish MUST be first, MUST be at least as prominent as the following text in other official languages.

    That is thrusting the Irish language onto a population where 99%+ live daily through English. Never mind our European visitors. It's the toe nail wagging the dog and flies completely in the face of daily reality.

    By the way, I like a bit of the Gaeilge myself now. But like many who were educated in this state, I resented it being shoved down our throats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    It doesn’t matter if the legislation says that — we are not contesting the prominence given to the language in signage and documentation, we are contesting the level to which that prominence amounts to some sort of impediment on society. All you seem to be saying here is that it . . . well what ? Kind of annoys you? If that’s what it is (i.e. you just don’t like the prominence of the language when it isn’t used by most people) then why not just come right out and just say that instead of pushing a baseless argument (an argument which a part of me suspects you don’t actually sincerely believe) that this legislation actually impedes Irish society somehow?

    Just because 99%+ of people don’t live daily through Irish doesn’t mean that 99%+ of the population think we should abandon attempts to preserve. A lot of people learn the language but lose it because the social and commercial reality means that they lose their proficiency through lack of practice — but that doesn’t mean they no longer cherish its survival. Signage and documentation help to keep a language in the national consciousness and provides a very small little economic opportunity to Irish-speakers (i.e. nobody gets rich from it alone). Hell, sometimes I see the name of a place in Irish on a sign and it gets me thinking what it means or what it refers to — that’s the whole point. It’s an overwhelmingly benign and harmless thing, but a small tool in trying to preserve the language.

    Post edited by ArthurDayne on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,229 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Francie, go away with your personal rants against other posters, and address the historical facts in relation to the use of Irish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,718 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 'facts' you have presented have been adequately debunked by others. Awaiting your come back to those posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,229 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That just isn't true.


    The dialects are still distinct and spoken. They have continued to this day. However, in Northern Ireland........

    "The last speakers of varieties of Irish native to what is now Northern Ireland died in the 20th century. Irish as spoken in Counties Down[9] and Fermanagh were the first to die out, but native speakers of varieties spoken in the Glens of Antrim[10] and the Sperrin Mountains of County Tyrone[11] and County Londonderry survived into the 1950s and 1970s respectively, whilst the Armagh dialect survived until the 1930s or '40s.[12] Varieties of Irish indigenous to the territory of Northern Ireland finally became extinct when the last native speaker of Rathlin Irish died in 1985.[13] Séamus Bhriain Mac Amhlaigh, who died in 1983, was reportedly the last native-speaker of Antrim Irish.[14]"

    "Most Irish speakers in Ulster today speak the Donegal dialect of Ulster Irish"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    The opposition to an Irish language act comes across as extraordinarily bitter. Realistically it'd have no tangible impact on non Irish speakers. It would give a little bit of succour to a culture whose language was effectively killed by colonialism, at no cost to anyone. Unionism really should be magnanimous about it, it should be a very easy thing to accept.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think the problem is that for a long time, unionists did not have to accept anything because they were effectively the privileged group. They now see the gradual changes including the GFA as eroding their "rights" even if those rights are not shared with their nationalist neighbours. Giving up these priviliges is evidently not easy for them to accept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    It’s probably worth pointing out here too that the legislation supported by SF, SDLP and Alliance also contains statutory mechanisms for the promotion and protection of Ulster-Scots. Of course, the DUP being the DUP insisted that the title of Ulster Scots Commissioner, a role to be created under the legislation, should be changed to Ulster British Commissioner. That more or less provides the insight into their ideology on this — that the Irish language simply means Irishness and therefore it has to be countered with Britishness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,718 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That's the central issue and instead of applauding these guys at their party conferences the Irish government should be saying that out loud without fear or favour.

    The lengths they will go to not to say these things is despicable when they are well able to criticise the representatives of the nationalist/Irish community. The inability to follow protocol and recognise what had happened in the election being the latest manifestation of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It has nothing to do with a language - it is about losing control and power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    You need to get some air.

    Having Irish shoved down your throat? I mean, where's the rationality at all with that nonsense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Do you honestly think that the current cohort running the place have the wit to figure that out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    These are people who write letters to the paper complaining about the use of white and orange flowers by councils on roundabouts and give out about Southern accents on adverts on telly,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,718 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭mehico


    This is true and there has been some excellent research carried out on the local Irish dialects. An excellent website below contains an archive of recordings made almost a century ago and includes some of the local dialects that are now extinct. Well worth having a listen for anybody interested in the language.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    It seems the UK government are determing to get the assembly up and running ASAP i suppose it is a significent step forward to have a member of SF as first minister and they will do what they can to make it happen... I have no idea what is likely to happen so hopefully someone here knows what possible next step... I have to say i didn't think things would happen this quick...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,718 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    i actually don't know which is why i ask... it appears that the UKgov are putting the assembly ahead of the protocol which i didn't expect... I thought there be a period of direct rule and abit of bartering but it seems the UKgov trying to avoid this happening...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,718 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's suits the UK gov to have this crisis. I'm sure they can't believe that Unionists are playing the part again. They just keep coming back for more. Serial self harmers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I also think it suits them but my read is they are taking Union side and on collision course with EU and want to alter protocol... i expected a debate but not as lively and as quickly...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    AS much as Unionists would want us to believe that their reluctance to form a govt is the protocol, the real reason I believe is that a sizeable portion of them can't fathom serving under a Nationalist FM. They're still under the mentality that is is their country and they always get their way.



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