d'EU wants to scan WhatsApp messages for kiddy porn

Post is private, “snail mail” like. But if someone sends something illegal through An Post, and they scan it, they can withhold the item, or arrest the recipient on collection. Is that an invasion of privacy?

Someone can buy drugs on from a dealer on a street corner. If a cop sees this they can go up and arrest them. Should the cop mind their own “business”? Is that an invasion of privacy?

We did well in this country making paedophilia socially unacceptable in 1994. But just because people started to view these acts as “wrong” didn’t mean they just went away. There are just as many predators out there as there was then. I just don’t think sacrificing a small amount of, online, privacy is a big deal if it means catching, or discouraging, child abusers.

May be they should take a leaf out of their own book. From what I have seen recently it's those in power and their pals that are doing the disgusting things to kids.

Could post a link but it would probably be taken down.

An post don't open letters to check their contents, and read the messages - which is what this proposal is.

It's also presuming everyone is a criminal to be cleared.

You mean how would they trace it back? Certain hashing algorithms don't produce completely random outputs. When input A looks like input B, then hash A may also look like hash B. This allows you to compare hashes and have a certain level of confidence about whether the inputs are similar.

We tend to think about hashing algorithms in terms of encryption, and being able to do this with a hashed password would be bad. But hashing is used for lots of other things, and being able to compare data based on their hashes rather than having to do a full comparison has lots of good applications.

There are also ways to compute hashes that don't necessarily take every byte of data into the hash. For images, for example, you can calculate a number for the general palette within the picture to get an idea of the tones of it. This is how if you do an image search for "Green", google finds a load of green images.

You can also take samples from various parts of the picture, calculate the tone in those individual regions and then combine them to create a larger hash. This is one way to get more accurate image comparisons because it's less susceptible to manipulations like adding borders or reducing the resolution of the image.

Hashing functions rarely identify "similar" data, if they do then the function is retaining too much information about the file in the first place.

Also most hashing functions can still generate collisions from totally different data, hash collisions can and do happen albeit rarely.

So what then? I get a hash collisions against one of those CSAM they have in a database, and now they have the right to imprison me? To surveil all my communications? Seize my phone?

A typical court warrant for any of that would fail instantly with that kind of tenuous evidence of a hash match, so why should we let govts legislate for this directly? Theyre effectively lowering the standard of evidence required to get electronic surveillance in place on anyone.

A society who would give up freedom for a little security deserves neither.

The question is simply, would you be willing to give up some privacy for the protection of others, that question can be asked in a multitude of ways, in this instance, it's via Whatsapp. Personally, I would be willing but I know others would never be willing to.

For issues such as this, or any issue, there will never be 100% agreement which is why politicians are not popular. They have to weigh up what they believe is public opinion and go with what the consensus wants. Sometimes it'll suit a particular individual, sometimes it won't.

I'm guessing if this was implemented then it wouldn't suit the OP due to their own views on privacy but would suit me, and vice versa.

As someone in the know how this all works. The ask is here is that a hash of an image ( a unique value for every file) match to google image match of file which is partial match on an image. I have no issue with this and I am 1000% pro privacy but am informed. Not allowing a file that is 100% child porn going over whatsapp is a good thing. Come back to me when there is someone held up in the wrong here. A file hash is unique. I am not going to take a picture that is the same as a child porn image, it's impossible.

Basically having an issue with this is the same as having an issue with someone providing 100% proof that the won the loto. It can't be refuted. If you have sent child porn it is black and white and there is database of these hashes and any check of this against this is against the metadata and not the content. It is not the case where a human needs to verify and it's a picture of your wife instead. It is 100% child porn match which no risk for failure on hash.

This new law apply to all digital messaging apps , Facebook message, imessage, discord, telegram, WhatsApp basically it asks all messaging apps to scan for illegal content, right now they use encryption, eg most apps can't read your messages, they know user 1 send a message to user 2 , they don't know the text of the message , it might contain links to certain illegal websites. Apps like WhatsApps telegram use encryption so only you and the person who recieve the message can read it, this is important in country's like Russia Iran where human rights protestors and activists and minority groups need to be able to have privacy from government surveillance, right now if you use certain apps you know hackers or some random person can't read your messages

once data is collected it tends to become a target for hackers , do you want someone reading all your 2fa 2factor passwords or pin codes that Google and your bank sends you so that can hack your data and gain acess to your email and your bank account do you think that no one should have a right to privacy just because a tiny proportion of people wish to view illegal content.

You can see more info on this at www.techdirt.com

I think this would apply to any messages including sms txt messages.

If you look into the detail of this law it is

on similar to data retention laws. Passed in Hong Kong China and Russia eg. Eg the government will have a right to examine all messages sent by EU citizens if they are suppected of illegal activity

Right now apple i message and Facebook WhatsApp telegram in America can choose to encrypt all messages on both devices if they want to so only the sender and reciever can read the data sent

If the message is looked at ll look like a random string of nos as its not in pain text form

You are simply wrong if you think no one has any privacy online that depends on what apps they use and and how they use them and do they use 2factors pin codes to login into online accounts

This is especially important now when Texas is bringing in laws that will make abortion illegal and also it could be made illegal to help or give a woman any information as to how to travel outside Texas to get a medical procedure that will be legal in another state

So if you were sending messages to someone in Texas you would use an app like telegram that is encrypted

So in the future it will be important that people can have some degree of privacy and can send a message without it being read by another agency

Like for instance in some American states its legal to buy or sell cannabis and in others its not

What apple was doing was scanning images on the iphone to see if they matched with known illegal content

If they new law comes into force what's app Facebook etc would have to do is to weaken encryption or turn it off completely so as to be able to scan all messages in case they might contain illegal content

One problem is this will make it easy for hackers if they can get acess to your phone they might be able to read all messages 2fa code pin codes that Google or your bank sends you and then gain acess to your bank account and read your emails in order for instance to hack into your bitcoin account

In some EU countrys abortion is illegal unless the woman's life is in danger

and you could maybe be arrested for helping a woman to travel to another country to obtain an abortion

So if you think that no EU citizen deserves privacy in sending a message to another person I don't agree with you

I think police in some parts of America America have already said they will be collecting digital data in states in order to stop women getting abortions if roe versus wade is struck down and abortion is illegal

This proposal is a momentously bad idea. It will only temporarily inconvenience the criminal 5% as they are smart and incentivised. However the public 95%, largely dumb and docile, will have permanently lost their right to privacy for absolutely no reason. Oh how we used to laugh at China when they treated their citizens like this!

Drug deals and non-child porn.

they start off scanning for child porn and abuse… what next ?

A fella got a suspended sentence a while back for possessing 1,027 images of child porn… https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30924115.html SUSPENDED ! wonder might the EU have said errrr we’d like that judge actioned… from behind a bench in a courtroom to behind a bench in a park is where I’d fire that clown.

all very well detecting it but if the judiciary do feck all as we have been accustomed to now in Ireland….

break a speed limit or a red light… ahh sure you’ll soon be expected to have yourself set alight inside your car… but something of this nature… not even a slap on the wrist…a tap on the shoulder…

if they want WhatsApp scanned….won’t end there…

whatsapp…

outlook, gmail, any email

phone calls ( why not, it’s under the umbrella attitude… “you do nothing wrong you’ve nothing to hide” )

probably right now in Ireland whatsapp is being used to plan crimes… assaults, robbery… just turn WhatsApp to an accessible application to all government agencies everywhere… less murders too…of course in breach of the data protection act but yet, what matter..

big brother is watching….

if you do something in public you have no right to privacy, if you do something illegal your right to privacy wont protect you ,we have no 4th amendment right ,this is not the usa.

If you do something legal and in private you shouldn't be monitored. Again - this is not the USA.