Sweden avoiding lockdown

People keep saying it because it is true, and Sweden did not have "round the same as 2011 and 2012" as the chart below shows.

2020 Sweden had 9,358 (10.54%) excess deaths compared to the previous year, where for the first 12 weeks they actually had less excess deaths than the previous year. The Economist in their reporting of excess deaths by region noted that for Scandinavia, Sweden were the exception for excess deaths and contributed them as being solely due to Covid.

Eurostat also show that those Swedish excess deaths coincided with both Covid waves in 2020 and shows the stark difference between Sweden and it`s Scandinavian neighours.

Sweden April -June 2020 excess deaths for each of those months : +38.2%, +23.9%, +10.7%.

Norway April - June 2020 excess deaths for each of those months : +2.9%, - 3.1%, -1.6%

Finland April - June 2020 excess deaths for each of those months : +8.1%, +5.6%, +5.7%

Denmark April - June 2020 excess deaths for each of those months: +6.4%, - 0.9%, +0.8%

I can also give you the excess deaths for all four for the months of November and December 2020 and January 2021 if you wish but the pattern is the same as the above.

I have not seen the deaths for Sweden or any of the others for 2021, but seeing as the Swedes dropped the herd immunity insanity in October 2020 I imagine there would be no discernible difference between them. I certainly would not see them as greatly altering the multiples of Swedish Covid deaths per capita compared to those of the three neighbours..

Sweden looks to of done well on deaths in 2021. They had a slow vaccine roll out initially and handed out

1.9 million AZ to everyone over 65 & 4.9 million Pfizer to those under 65's

Good to see and along with the recent Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre report shows how well vaccines and boosters have been doing. Even for the Delta variant that wasn`t around when they were developed.

As anybody can see from the Statistica chart your claim that deaths in 2011 (89,938) and for 2012 (91,938) were not "around" the same as 2020 when they were 98,124.

Sweden had excess deaths from the previous year of 9,358. All the statistics from Eurostat, The Economist and even Sweden`s own figures for the 9 months they had excess deaths show those deaths being for the 9 months when the Covid virus was killing people in Sweden.

Even Sweden themselves recognise that, with them, (even with their 28 day reporting rule), showing they registered 9,817 death from Covid in 2020. It really is just simple mathematics even if you only use Sweden`s own data. Sweden`s total deaths in 2020 would have been the same, or possibly even less for 2020 than they were for 2019 had there been no Covid virus. Talking about mortality rates per capita doesn`t change that.

Scientific advancements in diagnosis and treatment have played a large part in lowering annual death over the years, so I do not see where there should be an expectation that for 2020 there would be more deaths than for 2019. Especially when in the weeks prior to Covid-19 in 2020 deaths were lower.

2019 Sweden had total deaths of 88,766. 2020 total deaths were 98,124. Sweden themselves, even with their 28 day reporting rule on Covid-19 deaths, recorded 9,817 Covid-19 deaths. Had there been no Covid-19 deaths then Sweden`s total death for 2020 would have been 88,307. Lower than the 2019 figure of 88,766.

You can ignore that if you want, but no there are no indication that "The year after 2019 (pandemic or not) was going to have higher death figures". Sweden`s excess deaths of 9,358 for 2020 were due to nothing other than Covid-19.

You must have missed a large number of my posts if you missed that.

October 2020, while Tegnell was denying there was a second wave, (even getting into a diplomatic tiff with Italy over it), and being cheered on by the open up everything brigade on this thread, he announced that the numbers allowed for public gathering were going to be increased, that restrictions on care homes were going to be eased and he told the elderly and vulnerable that it was now safe to again mingle with the general population.

The local authorities had enough and put a stop to all of that, and no they did not see "the error of the governments ways". They saw the error of Tegnell and the rest of Giesecke`s "boy`s" ways and told the government they had no intention of following them any more. Everything Tegnell proposes or said in October was dropped like a hot brick and the government backed the local authorities. That was the end of chasing herd immunity and if you do not see that as a big u-turn then nothing much else I can do for you.

This map?

Estimated cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 people during COVID-19, Jan 13, 2022 (ourworldindata.org)

Sweden 112 per capita, Ireland 80, Norway, Denmark at 46.

2020: Sweden 88, Norway 3, Denmark 2, Ireland 11

Well, now that 2021 is over and done with let's look at the final results:

And that is with an aging populating + a large increase in population overall from 2015 onwards.

All of this with no masks, no lockdowns. Vaccine passports were introduced *very briefly* for large events but quickly scrapped because they didn't seem to change anything anyways.

I wonder if you charlie will ever come to terms with the fact that the lockdowns and forced masks over the last 2 years was no good.

Also, this has been raised before and should be raised again: You cannot compare Sweden to Denmark, Norway and Finland as if they're somehow identical.

The same old silly arguement that Sweden cannot be compared to any of it`s neighbours because it does not suit the narrative. This time it`s because Sweden has a greater aging population and that is why excess deaths are greater. It has all been posted here before. Sweden does not have a greater percentage of those aged 65 and over than it`s neighbours. It has the same (and for one country) less in that age group.

Compared to 2019 Sweden has 10.54% excess deaths for 2020. Compared to 2021 Sweden has 6.71% excess deaths for 2020. None of Sweden`s neighbours have anywhere close to those percentages of excess deaths.

Those high excess deaths are attributable to Sweden`s unethical attempt at acquiring natural herd immunity. An attempt that continued long after their own test results showed it was unattainable. Something in my view was criminal and only came to an end when local authorities finally regained the power to make health decisions for their own regions, putting a stop to it and forcing the government to back them rather than Tegnell and his cowboys who at the time were in denial of a second wave and were planning to lift restrictions on care home visits, increase the numbers at public events and were telling the vulnerable that it was again safe to mingle with the general population.

Thankfully the local authorities finally saw sense and stopped the madness, but it was to little too late as the excess death figures clearly show.

Well unless you died of course....

Nothing to do with chagrin. The only reason I even posted on this thread was to express the opinion that what Sweden was attempting was dangerous and unethical as a counter to the idiots that were advocating the same approach in Ireland. Especially after Giesecke started his European tour to promote his strategy when he knew from what he had told Tegnell in e-mails he had got wrong, and Sweden`s own test results not only showed he was wrong but that naturally acquired herd immunity was unachievable. Nowhere it was attempted came even close, and those that thought they had achieved it after the first wave were sadly and quickly shown to be wrong.

Even Tegnell in the end admitted it was unethical. It was a failure that resulted in needless deaths. The figures show that, and figures do not lie. Just accept it and move on.

Bullsh1t. Whatever the vaccines did - and I'm not denying they had some positive effect - it is next to impossible to quantify their effect on reducing the spread. Even if one believes the arithmetics around shorter timespans of viral emission by vaccinated vs not-vaccinated it was never enough to curtail the spread to a degree that would end the pandemic. What ended the pandemic in Sweden and elsewhere were the ever less 'dangerous' variants. Everything else belongs in the land of myths.

It is now widely accepted that lockdown and restrictions were a vast and counterproductive overreach. And from that it follows that all their propagators and arduous advocators need to accept the sad truth that they've been manipulated and that their compliance and zealous advocacy was in the end nothing more than the herd following the 'man on the telly' even when the same told you 2 + 2 = 5. And effectively enabling all this sh1t happening in the first place.

Its a bitter pill to swallow - I get that - but it is what to is. You've been had. Get over it. We all know we will be had again. Its how the world works, sadly.

Well it's not "impossible" to quantify as you can see the change in trend as different measures were implemented or withdrawn.

But if peoples habit is to look for data that only agrees with what's in their head and ignore the data that doesn't. Like ignore comparisons with their peers. Then they'll never be wrong, at least in their own head.

Again bullsh1t. Had we caved and reinstated masks we would now be hailing masks for the great fall in numbers and effectively ending the pandemic. Something we thankfully didn't do this time around, but something that has happened throughout. Like the shaman who knows the eclipse is coming and impresses the muddy villagers how he can make the sun go away.

The whole response has been so all over the place and so disjointed its impossible to attribute any effect on any cause. The only thing that has been impossible to switch off was the seasonality of it. Peaks on January 8 like clockwork no matter what 'we' did.