Fall of the Catholic Church

Correction. That’s your interpretation of what I described. Your entitled to that critique. It doesn’t make it reality.

How do you know what kids are ‘earning’ for choosing to participate in the day?

Did it ever occur to you that some of those children are eager to deliver the readings, for which they have practiced diligently? That they are excited to be confirmed, standing with their sponsor that they have explicitly chosen? That they get to spend the day with their families and cousins?

No, it all comes down to monetary gain, doesn’t it?

What if, instead, the kids were taken to an amusement park for free reign for a day, lots of treat food and time with their friends. No preconditions - just go, no training, no goth dresses, nothing. Would they enjoy that as much? Why not offer them that choice?

To add to this, try leaving. Someone on the atheism thread went through all the steps they needed to take to officially leave, void their baptism or whatever. Not easy, as you can imagine, the RCC doesn't want you to leave. Like any cult. At least they didn't put snakes in that person's postbox.

I already explained to you that girls do not wear dresses when being confirmed. Your ‘quip’ about goth dresses wasn’t funny or incisive the first time. Why wheel it out again?

All the kids in my family went to Tayto Park a few weeks ago. They had an amazing time apparently. On Thursday, my eldest niece was confirmed, participated in a faith-based ceremony that is meaningful to her grandparents and parents. She willingly opted in and chose a confirmation name, honoring her late grandmother. Again, she and her cousins had an amazing day.

There’s no dichotomy here. Faith-based and secular events aren’t mutually exclusive. Many families manage to find the right balance and see them happily co-exist in the lives of their children. Why does that bother so much?

I didn’t miss your point. It was just poorly articulated.

Au contraire Princess. You clearly do have a very big issue with the ceremony and the day. You underestimate people Princess. Most do understand that their is a commitment involved. However, the execution of that commitment is variable. But that’s human nature and applies to all facets of life.

Returning to my earlier question; how many children do you have Princess? How is your family life personally impacted by Catholicism?

They have a law in Germnay - people who are subscribed to a Christian church pay 3% extra income tax and that is passed on to whatever church they belong to. You can opt out of course - but there was a push by the RCC to get anyone baptised in a church anywhere in the EU to have to pay it, but it failed. There was also talk about refusing sacraments to those who didn't (fair and good move, I thought) but I don't know anything came of it.

Wonder who things would fare if that was brought in in Ireland?

Actually, you can get the entry altered after the baptism one showing 'left'. It might be they mark it 'apostate.' Doesn't really matter. The A&A threads link to sites with this information.

I'm not - I'm pointing out that the church is willing to record changes.

It is interesting that you say "lacked the mental capacity to permit the marriage being entered into in the first place" and then say "a helpless baby" in the the next.

In answer to your last question - never talked about it with them. My baptism still stands on the record. Whoever, I'm no longer living in Ireland so I'm not counted there one way or there and German anmeldung/reigstration forms allow me to list myself as KR/Keine Religion (which is accurate).

Parents want to decide but 95% of the education system is working against them

I'd guess they'd like the priest to stop pretending that every baptised person is still Catholic.

Based on my immediate family experience, the ability to get a marriage annulled has more to do with the ability to bring financial resources to the table than any questions about mental capacity. The family member who got his first marriage annulled had no end of capacity, as did his first wife, both graduates, both working in professional roles, both in their mid-twenties, but just weren't compatible. My family member was delighted to get an annulment so he could marry again, just like Henry VIII did. It was all about influence and finances, not about capacity.

Absolute strawman position - playing the victim card.

How do I know? Because I talk to people and read the news. It's not hard really.

Do you seriously believe that this isn't a factor for the average 12 year old making a decision to partake?

And there's that 'drama performance' delight again - shouldn't they just be doing a school play or concert, something that ALL their friends can join in with?

The difference would be that with normal instructions or rules, there is solid evidence behind them. There is solid evidence around the importance of good sleep hygiene for children and others. There is good evidence around the importance of a healthy diet.

There isn't good evidence about some mystical creature who is intently focussed on what you do or don't do with your genitals and when you do or don't do it. That's a big difference in fairness.

I'm not going to bite on your attempts to inflame and personalise the debate, trying to make it all about me and even dragging up unrelated matters from other threads. It's not about me. It's about stopping those who want to impose their personal value systems on others, using State resources to do so.

How would that be possible? Ireland hasn't been 95% Catholic, or even Christian, in decades.

Even if Ireland was 99.9% practising Catholic, having religion imposed in schools would still be wrong.

🙄🙄

Hang on. Did you even bother to read my previous posts before launching into your little diatribe?

1. I’m not avoiding anything. I’m relating the personal experience of my family and those known to me.
2. I’ve already stated that I’m in favor of the RCC retreating from education to only serve a specifically catholic demographic via faith-based schools. I don’t know if that’s 30%, 50%, 75%, or perhaps closer to 100% of the population currently attending catholic schools. The RCC should snap to that community, leaving other schools entirely secular.

Are you really that blinkered that you can’t comprehend that there are parts of this country that are overwhelmingly catholic?

Case in point, the confirmation I attended was attached to a catholic primary school in my semi-rural home town in the west. Almost everybody is catholic; the weekly masses still draw a significant crowd; virtually all children are raised in the faith.

Almost all the children in my niece’s year were confirmed. The only kids who weren’t was one Irish family who opted out and one non-national family, with a different religious background. How is it so difficult for you to comprehend that many such communities exist across the country?