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family law

  • 13-05-2022 11:55pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭


    i know i should not be asking for advise online and I should consult in a solicitor, truth is I cant afford one and I have applied for legal aid, i will know in 1 - 2 week if I am approved


    i feel i dont have anything to hide, and I will keep it as private as I possibly can, I also know there must be some % of solicitors using boards.ie and if so, maybe one could kindly guide me to what to do next, such as MensAid ect

    i was in a long term 20 year relationship that recently ended, we have x amount of children together under 16 of age


    She threatened me Saying get out of the family home, and take a look at it before you go it will be the last you will ever see of it, I don't know if that alone is classed as a threat or a promise ? this was on a Wednesday , and by Monday I received a call from a Garda working in the court service informing me of a summons to be served on me for a Domestic Violence , I was sick to the tummy and was in complete shock

    The papers were served, she wrote a note and attached it to the papers, asking the Judge to please keep her safe and our children safe. this was on Monday lunchtime - what I find profoundly strange If she wrote she was in fear of her safety and our children's safety signed in front of a judge!! - Then why did she think it was a good idea to drop the kids over to the house I was staying at alone, and leave them with me at 6pm 6 hour later - the very same day the papers were served

    Please Tell me - that a judge will see through her lies and stop this nonsense! I have never raised a finger to any woman or person in my life, i have 2 children that will contest to this :( I have to attend court next month in front of a family law judge.



Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 14,771 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    OP, legal advice is not permitted on boards.ie for the simple fact we or you have no way of verifying the source. So you may ask for advice from a solicitor and could receive advice from a 16 year old TY student and know no difference.

    I will leave the thread open for others to offer opinion or their own experience. But nobody can tell you how this will go and the only advice is to wait to talk to a solicitor and make sure you are represented by one in court.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Yes the judge will see through her lies. Gather as much evidence to support your position - whatsapp messages, witness statements and your own sworn affidavit to present to the court / judge. I'm not a solicitor btw but have experience of the family courts.

    Were the gardai ever called by her or were you ever questioned by the gardai about an assault? Does she have medical records to prove she attended hospital / GP? If not this should also demonstrate that she is lying and should be raised during the court hearing.

    Don't leave the family home either unless you've been ordered to by the courts.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sounds like an initial safety order. There will be a full hearing within a month allowing you to state your case.

    In general stay strong, stay calm, do not allow you buttons to be pressed in or out of court. Any encounter with your partner from now should have a witness(to protect you from further allegation, and to confirm she has dropped the children to you). suggest unless dire family emergency communicate by text only.

    Beg borrow and steal to have legal representation for the hearing. Solicitor will ensure your case is presented and discourage baseless allegations in court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,803 ✭✭✭✭Deja Boo


    Perhaps there is Single Fathers group in your area, which supports rights for fathers in custody battles, etal ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Do nothing... don't even attend court... see how she likes that...

    I expect almost every person in relationship in Ireland as i think bad language in row with your partner can be domestic voilence...

    I had a friend a few years ago who was accused like you... he refused to parent the children until the charges were dropped... they never were... but a few Months later she brought him to court because he was not sharing the parenting... she got what she wanted...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I assume you mean protection order? They would have also had to file a barring or safety order.


    She possibly just went full barring.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    If a court summons is served on you OP do not ignore it.

    Get legal advice. Keep a note of everything, including her dropping the kids to you after you'd received the summons. While you're waiting for the legal aid board to come back to you see if there is a FLAC service up and running near you. They used to run clinics, but not sure what effect Covid has had on it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Court is for people who break the law... if the person did nothing ignore... he cannot be arrested...



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    It would be a bad idea to suggest to someone to ignore a court summons.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    A person cannot be summonsed to court on the word of another person who is not a law enforcement officer... this is a request... its not a summons... what law did the persomn break...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,163 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Criminal courts yes but not family law courts. People have to go there for all sorts of reasons.

    OP engage with the court proceedings, it will go against you in the future if you don't.



  • Posts: 1,469 [Deleted User]


    This is incredibly poor advice.

    The OP has to attend Court. The Court take their power to compel people to attend Court extremely, extremely seriously. It is absolutely vital that if you are summoned to Court you attend. I can't overstate how idiotic your advice is.

    If he doesn't attend Court, he may not be arrested but the Court will proceed in his absence to make whatever Orders his ex is looking for.

    Anyhow OP, I used to be a family law solicitor but left it as it was too depressing. Your best option is to get a solicitor you can talk honestly to.

    In Court, you will have a very short window to convince the Judge of your side of the story. Ime, it's always good to create a good impression by turning up on time, in clean clothes, presentable etc. Sounds like a minor thing but you'll literally only have a few minutes to create an impression so stack up everything you can in your favour.

    Good luck



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    How would it go against ... thats sh1te... if you break the law you go to court... she will get the barring order... what does she do next... as ik said earlier i know a person who refused to engage and refused to take the children and it worked... why the fcuk would anyone go to court to defend a false alligation...

    Post edited by maestroamado on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Thats absolute fcuking rubbish... what would the person be charged with?? why would anyone want to impress a Judge if they did nothing wrong...



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper



    The person wants to get his situation sorted. It's in his interest in a family law court that he shows he has complied with everything asked of him.

    Ignoring things requested of him ie not going to court is not the way to go about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    You said it is a summons... it is not... before you said sjummons... now you say request...

    It is in the interest of the family law court... it is not likely to help the OP or his children... family law is not law...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Sounds like the OP wants to resolve this without using his children as pawns as well though.

    Your friend was very lucky that it didn’t backfire on him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    It is the woman who is using the children... how could it backfire... he did nothing wrong... this is not Russia...

    The children now know as he still has the summons? she lost all credibility with them...

    Why would the OP go to court to defend a lie... it would give the lie some credibility by attending...

    Post edited by maestroamado on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    The OP says the papers were served.

    OP, again, do not ignore a Court Summons. Get legal advice to help you decide what to do next.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    What's the OP charged with?? it is not a court summons if there is not an offence committed...

    OP decide what you think best... i am not giving advise i am stating what happened...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    OP, you can also go to the court and ask the judge about his oath and tell him you are a freeman of the land and he has no jurisdiction over you the real person.


    Come back and tell us how you got on when you are eventually released.



  • Posts: 1,469 [Deleted User]


    He doesn't have to be charged with anything for her to get a barring order against him, which she's presumably going for in Court. It would be extremely foolish for him to follow your advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    If there no charge there is no requirement to attend court... In the instance i refered to earlier she got her barring order but it worked agains her as it did not go as planned for her...

    When there was noone to fight with the game was over...

    It would be alot more foolish to defend a false alligation and by attending court the Judge has the opportunity to make a judgement on something that didn't happen...

    Is this what Irish Justice stands for... I am not offering advice but some others here seem to be including you...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,887 ✭✭✭donegal_man


    Advising someone not to attend Court to answer a summons has to be some of worst 'non advice' I've seen on here.

    OP, do not ignore any documents issued by the court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    There is absolutey not a summons to attend court... there is no need just let them make the ruling in your absense... there are no consequences for not attending...

    I am not offering advise... i seen this happen... the person can advise... people here are saying summons... its not...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭Tork


    So what are you offering if it isn't advice? You've been repeatedly suggesting/telling/urging the OP that he shouldn't turn up to court because he hasn't broken the law. You've also got an anecdote about what your mate did (if it is indeed a true story). Your posts are reading more like rants against the legal system we have. It's incredibly dangerous advice to be proffering to somebody who's in a tricky position at the moment and who has to deal with the fallout from the breakup in real life. You, like the rest of us, just have to step away boards and continue on with your day. He has to live with this.

    OP, back on topic. I can't emphasise enough how important it is for you to have legal representation and to comply with the courts. I have a relative who's going through something like this with a volatile ex who has concocted some vicious stories along the way. That's where you need someone with a cool head. In the case of my relative, the judges have seen through the ex's lies but it's debatable how much of a win that has been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    You and your lot said its a summons... anyonw who doesn't agree is on a rant and likely telling lies... i doubt if you know the difference...

    He hasn't broken the law and you guys are saying he has by saying its a requirement to attend... it is not a summons...

    You should start another thread about the legal system and we can tell you how wonderful you are... i expect that will be a lively chat...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @maestroamado please stop. Will all due respect, you obviously know nothing about how Safety, Protection or Barring Orders are granted or how the Family Courts operate. If you want to start a discussion on the legal aspect, start a thread on Legal Discussion. (sorry mods, not trying to mod, but it needs to be said).

    Non-attendance at the Court on foot of these proceedings would result in any order his partner has applied for being immediately granted to her by default.

    OP, if your were called by a Garda, it appears your partner / spouse (?) may have already had an ex-parte hearing in front of a judge. You are not in a good position. She is playing hardball. Did the Garda advise if any temporary order has been granted?

    Whatever you do, attend the court, and seek legal advice. Please also contact Mensaid Ireland.

    If you feel you are being railroaded you can also contact Womensaid - don't let the title fool you, they will also offer advice and assistance to men.

    As also mentioned earlier in the thread, FLAC offer specialised FLAC Family Law Clinics.

    Inform yourself on what constitutes "Domestic Violence", so you are prepared to answer anything you may be accused off at the hearing.

    Domestic Violence is a lot more than just physical abuse - emotional abuse, manipulative or controlling behaviour can also be classed as DV. (That is not me saying you are guilty of these things - just that you need to be fully informed).

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 1,469 [Deleted User]


    It absolutely would be foolish to not tell your side of the story rather than giving the ex a free run.

    Say the OP's ex gets a barring order, what does the OP do then? He'll probably be barred from living in the family home. If he breaks it, the Gardai will get involved and force him to comply with it etc.

    I don't think you are even being "well meaning but ignorant" here, i think you have an axe to grind against Family Courts or some such.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    It doesn't matter as he is gone from the house so let her have her order... she has then to make the decision whether the children see their father as she and the court has stopped this right if the order is granted... The court has no right to any of this... you guys all know this... its bacically a sham system...

    I will not stop talking to please a shower who know whats going on and cover up same for money... If he breaks the barring order that is a summons... We need to work around you guys...

    Can you enforce the in camera rule on boards...



  • Posts: 1,469 [Deleted User]


    What do you mean when you say "the court has no right to any of this"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The court should not make family decisions... i have one family member and the courts completely destroyed the family and it can be proven...



  • Posts: 1,469 [Deleted User]


    "Should" is very different to "has" though. Right now the Court has the powers it has, you may not like it but you can't wish it away either.

    Anyhow, you're clearly fighting some other battle here over what happened in your family which is hardly relevant to the OP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Its the lawmakers fault that you guys do as you please... both Enda Kenny and Brian Lenihan were approached in the case i mention so i know what i am talking about...

    Solocitors play with families and words like should and has for wealth... Moral Ireland God help us...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @maestroamado

    I will not stop talking to please a shower who know whats going on and cover up same for money...

    I don't understand what you think anyone here has to gain by misleading the original poster. No one here is getting paid.

    she has then to make the decision whether the children see their father...

    No, she does not. The Family Courts will decide that, if it becomes a matter of contention.

    @spongbob, if there are any issues around seeing your children, I would advise issuing your own summons for an Access Order - though I see in your original post that the mother has already brought the children to see you, so a kind of precedent has been set. My only other advice on this matter of access is to always have someone with you when the children are being dropped off or collected, so no further allegations can be made against you later on.

    I second the advice offered earlier that until the hearing is decided, all communication between you and your childrens' mother needs to be witnessed, where possible.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Mod Note
    @maestroamado you've made your point.Please do not post in this thread again.
    S


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The in camera rule is very much part od boards... you can only say what we want to hear...

    ----------

    Warning given for ignoring mod instruction

    Post edited by Hannibal_Smith on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The purpose of the in camera rule is not to prevent discussions on family law.

    The purpose of the in camera rule is to protect the identity of the parties and any child to whom family law or childcare proceedings relate.

    No one's identity is being revealed here, and discussion of the in camera rule is not relevant or helpful to the OP.

    OP, please don't concern yourself with worrying about the in camera rule.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭spongbob


    Thank you everyone for your replies!! I am having an unsettled few days, I have never been in this position before in my life My Ex - As of last week - wrote in her hand writhing that she was in fear of her safety and our children's safety and PLEASE HELP! I don't see how a judge wold allow those phrase of words to be used against me - and then allow for the children to have sleep overs in my temp home!? She obviously has not got real safety concerns or worries if she's freely drops them over at a drop of a hat, I love my kids so much they are my pride and joy , I WISH I could get full custody of them and have her removed from the home and see how she like that, I learned today that she instructed my 2 small kids (under 8 years of age) to block me from snapchat & WhatsApp, yet she is quite happy to allow them to have sleep overs with me, woman are a funny creature! I hope to god I get a really open minded sensible judge that can see this allegation for what it really is!

    I think she is under the impression, That she will be left live in our family home (joint owned) now mortgage free, Until our smallest one turns 18 years of age ect, This is the only thing I can see her going after

    Thanks again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,163 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Off topic but why the hell do your children under 8 have access to Snapchat and WhatsApp 😱 minimum age for Snapchat is 13 and WhatsApp is 16 according to the T&Cs.

    Be sure to get legal advice, this is all very emotive but many family court judges try to insist on leaving the emotion at the door. You need to work out what you will say without getting angry, or aggressive. Facts, and evidence. Keep a diary of the kids stay overs etc.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭spongbob


    Every day is a learning day, It was their mother whom allowed them to install these apps, I will be making note of what you said that is very important information! facts and evidence is what I want to use - you have been a great help - Thank you again



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Is it really important who allowed the apps to be installed in the first place? You clearly knew they were using them, so if I were you I wouldn’t be making a big deal out of this. It won’t look good on either of you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    Judges will err on the side of caution when there is suggestions of violence or that children will be in danger. So I expect that the finding will be in her favour unless there is very strong and indisputable evidence in support of the order not being granted. Safety order is a prelude to barring order.

    As it is the family home, she would be entitled to live in the house with the children until the youngest is 23. It is the usual settlement as the judge has to do what is in the best interests of the children, and that is almost always for them to stay in the family home with the primary caregiver, which is almost universally the mother. That is the usual way. The only way a judge would do something different would be if there were extremely compelling reasons for it. Ie, the judge would only grant custody to the father if the mother was an immediate and serious danger to the children, like for example there was a proven record of violence or profound neglect or heavy drug problems that have persisted despite several previous attempts at intervention which failed to improve things. Tusla would also have to get involved and recommend a departure from the default position. And again, the mother would have to be in very bad situation for tusla to make a recommendation for her custody of the the children to be removed or even curtailed.

    Womens aid won't give advice to men, they only give help and advice to women, especially women with small children.

    i'd also recommend getting rid of Snapchat from your own phone too and close your account. Judges could look at an adult male having that app and interpret it as something like a hint of grooming about it.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Judges will err on the side of the law, and she is going to need a lot more evidence than an emotive note to secure a full barring order.

    From Womensaid.ie/Services

    Women’s Aid provides a range of inclusive frontline services, detailed below, which are available to all women, including transgender women.  The services are available to women of any sexuality, ethnicity, nationality, age or ability. We assist men who contact the Women’s Aid 24hr National Freephone Helpline and also signpost to partner organisations offering dedicated services to male victims and survivors of domestic violence and abuse.7

    Men are not turned away by Womensaid, and I know some personally who have received advice and court accompaniment by WA.

    Also, she is not "entitled" to remain in the house until the youngest child is 23. The Court will determine what happens to the house. Whether the house is a family home or a shared home, is unclear. (Which is why I asked earlier if the OP was referring to his partner, or his spouse). Given the OP has also stated that the house is mortgage free, there is a reasonable chance he could win a property adjustment order for the sale of the house, and the proceeds split, allowing both parties to walk away with enough of a deposit to start afresh, if he chooses to pursue that route. Or he could request she remortgage and buy him out. Either/Or.

    I hope, OP, that you have sought legal advice at this stage. Also FACT CHECK everything.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    Entitled is perhaps the wrong word. But in reality the woman and children remaining in the family home house is by far the most common outcome, by a country mile. So in approximation for the real world, it might as well be an entitlement because it can and will be the outcome most of the time unless there is a very compelling reason for it to be otherwise.

    Yes judges should err on the side of the letter of the law. But in real world practice they definitely are biased towards the mother and children most of the time. And there's a very strong record of precedent for giving greater weight to the mother and children because at the end of the day, they are usually the more vulnerable.

    You are talking about theory. I'm taking about practical outcomes in the real world

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not going to get into a debate here on theory, as its not helpful to the Op.

    Nor is telling the OP the outcome of his case is a forgone conclusion, before he has even had a chance to go to Court.

    Hence my advice to the OP to do his own "due diligence" and do his own fact checking.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    @CreadanLady this is not a general discussion on court outcomes. The OP is seeking advice from those who have been through a similar experience and as per the Mod Instruction at post 2 in the thread to the OP 'nobody can tell you how this will go'

    You are not privy to the particulars of the OPs case or situation and are in no position to tell him what the outcome will be.

    This is the second time you have been asked to stay on topic and offer advice to an OP on their issue any further off topic posting will be carded.

    HS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭combat14


    op you can also ring mens aid for advice and friendly ear they are free and very good support

    also get legal advice asap - you can't afford not to ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭spongbob


    thank you I took your advice about the mensaid, and I have hired a solicitor!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Good luck getting to see the inside of a family law court in the next two years. The waiting times should be a crime. I wouldn't be listening to advice here to not show up in court. That's silly.

    You're not the only man who is having his honour, integrity and reputation destroyed in this process. But it's not the sort of thing a man can speak opening about because people would think "No smoke without fire". In other words, the very fact you're being accused of something bad has deemed you guilty in the eyes of many.

    It's very, very much a tactic pushed by a large number of solicitors and the whole, utterly outrageous "I believe her" campaign is doing nothing but encouraging these false allegations against innocent men.


    As said already, I'd note all the times it suited her to have you look after the children - when she wanted to lie on, go out, and so much else. I'd also start taking notes on all her instances of negligence of the children, and I'd note the children's comments to you about how they feel at her behaviour. In Irish law, there are no consequences for these vile people making such false allegations against innocent men.



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