Are secondary school dress codes still sexist?

Discipline and structure are very important for most kids to do well. Don't understand people's constant gripes about rules and complaining when schools try to run a tight ship to teach kids self-discipline and self-respect.

The example given is not sexist either.

There are sexist elements in some schools, yes. In my niece's school the girls aren't allowed take their jumpers off on warm days but the boys are. They're also not allowed wear leggings for PE or sports as they're "inappropriate" 🙄🙄🙄

So sexist aspects to dress codes are the girls' own fault because sluts and fatties. Got it.

We've just reached peak AH.

Why not just say no open buttons, uniform dress code.

in August and May can be very warm… health and safety as well as common sense should dictate that students of either gender may take off a jumper in order to regulate their body temperature…and ensure comfort as well as health and safety.

if I had a kid who was asthmatic or low blood pressure or whatever and was prevented from removing a jumper in order to maintain a level of comfort and wellbeing I’d simply get a doctors note, furnishing the school as well as the department of education with said note and the first occasion where a teacher or principal or vice principal would not be in obeyance… hit the school with a solicitors letter….they can say ‘rules is rules’ but you can say the law trumps that.

Maybe everyone else is afraid to say it like it was, but I can totally understand the jumper rule. As a 15 year old, the thought of seeing a bra through a school shirt was enough to get me going. This is in the 90s by the way. And I was short and ginger, so not popular with the ladies at all. I believe it's called puberty, and nun-run school in the 90s did not like to talk about that.

I mean, it's not fair, I totally understand. And yes, you can say just teach the boys not to react. But you're talking about possibly hundreds of boys currently going through puberty. Actually, maybe it wouldn't be as bad today because you have porn at your fingertips. If I had that in the 90s, not 20 minute loading for a tit pic, I may not have been on the lookout as much. Maybe they should do away with shirts altogether and instead use, ah... polos. They can be loose fitting and not physique revealing. And are cooler in the summer.

And this may be shocking for some posters to hear, but no matter what I saw that got the main mans blood boiling, I didn't act on it. Strange, I know, males are supposed to be animals, but no, I didn't do anything untoward that wasn't invited. Shocking.

I dunno, sounds like it sucks to be young these days. Sucks to be an "adult" too. Life just sucks. We should be teaching that, life sucks, here's how to deal with it. I'm not against the positive changes and advances, but people really seem to think that we can have this utopian kind of humanity that just doesn't and can never exist. Humans be humans.

So not all men are animals who will do something untoward but you still think girls should cover up because?

Life isn't fair and it sucks. I thought everyone knew that. And I'm not saying they need to cover up, just that I understood the why for my time at least. I always thought prevention was better than cure. Can't both happen? Better uniforms so they don't cause visible bits, and education around sex. As I said, people seem to forget what it was like to be a teen going through puberty. And as I said, in my time sex was just not talked about. It was taboo. The nuns were having none of it. And there was no usable internet to reference. I can't comment on what it's like today.

I've absolutely no issue with anyone wearing whatever they want. Go for it. None of my business. But, and don't immediately jump to victim blaming here, some clothes are literally designed to show off the bits that are appealing and elicit reactions. It's like saying the strong independent female artists are not using sex appeal, ie: WAP. We can't even have a conversation about it because it's immediately met with accusations of victim blaming. Particularly in relation to clothes for children and under 18s, there's no line. I'm not the one to draw that line, but imo there should be one. I will never blame the victim, a victim is a victim, but I do believe we should discuss the circumstances. Seems most people believe everything to be black and white. Yes, people should be comfortable in the knowledge they won't be attacked because [any reason]. But we can't. Not all the time. And to say otherwise is foolish.

I don't want kids, but my god, I can't imagine what it's like to be a father of a teenage girl into the "fashion", ie: revealing or skin tight clothing. It's wrong, but supported, oft times encouraged. There are bad people out there, and no matter what legislation is brought in, no matter what attempts at education there is, they will do bad things. We make calls every day in our lives to ensure our own safety. We don't drive through certain areas because of a reputation. We don't walk alone at night if possible. I won't go on a skiing holiday because the risk isn't worth the reward. But some people would have us be ok with women being able to walk around naked and not elicit reactions. Don't get me wrong, this perfect utopia would have all that, but it's simply just not achievable. All we can do is find our own bubble to be happy in. I honestly think humanity is too far gone, too deep into the ideas of power and money, to be able to change. Some will change, but the ones who matter, the ones in power, won't.

I just wish people would acknowledge that women do use their sex appeal and not just to be a strong independent woman. And reasons are mostly selfish.

I don't know what you're trying to prevent though? Lads getting boners? Life is unfair, why does it have to be unfair for girls (in this instance) because a lad might get a boner? I've been a teenage boy going through puberty and I can't honestly say I would have done better in school if not for all the boners taking blood from my brain.

See, can't have a conversation. Life is unfair for everyone. Girls are not special in that regard. Why do we want girls showing off their goods? Why aren't we saying they need display less? Why is it always the males fault regardless? And yes, I'm talking beyond uniforms now. My opinion is NOT that males should be able to do what they want. My opinion is assault is assault. But circumstances matter. We're not teaching girls to look out for themselves, rather encouraging they do whatever they want and the boys will be wrong anyway if something happens.

Maybe it's just me that doesn't want adult sex appeal in teenagers. It's not something I look for, but there are those out there who do. Maybe we should be encouraging young girls to follow women like Tiera Guinn instead of Cardi-B. Then maybe they wouldn't think displaying their bodies is what they should be doing.

Edit: "School uniforms which, (unless you (generic you) have some kind of kink) are not designed to "show of the bits that are appealing and elicit reactions"."

Tell that to all the people buying one of the most popular outfits at Halloween. School uniforms have sex appeal. Or at least, they do up to a point. And even beyond that, some people still like the idea. Why? Because for the formative years during puberty, you are surrounded by girls in school uniforms. Now, this is obviously where peoples preferences come into play, but when I was in school, yeah, the uniform could be sexy. I'm sure plenty of others feel the same but won't admit to it. I think it would be wrong to assume otherwise.

And I can say on one hand and then discuss the circumstances, because they are linked. I can walk down the in a mankini, and do doubts the guards would be called anyway. Should I not be allowed to? Can I not have a luminous g-string wedged up my hairy ginger craic and not have anyone say something? Why is it ok for men to be topless but not women? It's a very broad conversation, covering a lot. You can say I'm victim blaming when I've blamed an actual victim. Give me the story, give me the details, and if I then blame the victim after it, go for it.

Is having skirts for girls and pants for boys not automatically gender discrimination? Should the uniform not be... uniform, regardless of sex? Or at least, as in the case when I was in school, shirts not made of nearly see through material?

Ok, I'll end it there so. Not getting involved in another back and forth with random people. I've said my bit. Think what you want. Sounds like your issue is more with the material of the uniform tbh. Have a good one!

Well in fairness, I have seen leggings that leave zero to the imagination

I'm glad too, I no longer have to deal with doses.

Jesus this is a grim read. Wearing makeup and jewellery has nothing to do with men.

Some of the posters on here have odd ideas about women and girls.....

OP I'm not a parent but I was a pupil in a mixed school with a uniform not too long ago and there were rules around dress code that were less enforced for the lads. We could wear shorts but girls couldn't. The argument was we needed them for GAA but girls played GAA too. It's anecdotal but girls I knew would be pulled up for not wearing full uniform - tie, blazer etc - lads weren't. Not only that if a lad turned up looking like he'd been dragged through a bush it would be "does your mother not know how to iron a shirt", no personal responsibility on them to look respectable. Different story for the girls. Probably depends on the school, mine was a religious one with deeply entrenched gender stereotypes. If I have kids I'd be hoping to send them somewhere a bit more open minded.