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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You have a strange way of discussing things. It reminds me of the lads in the Occupy tents a couple of years ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    nuclear energy is a transition source for those who already have it and that is why the EU have recognised it as such so that countries who have existing facilities dont feel they have to close them prematurely, however for ireland it is a non-starter and will not be happening due to ultra high expensivity and poor value.

    i have addressed the US and it's reserves of gas and what i have said checks out so have no more to add on it, it's ultimately not a secure source for ireland.

    our energy regulator realises that our use of lean mean green cheap renewables at scale will sort out our energy security issues but at the moment while our energy is some bit unsecure it is not of huge concern, just something that must be addressed quicker then we are doing it, as in we need to transition to renewables quicker, and the non-morans in the green party also recognise this reality.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Your effort at avoiding answering what I asked is a bit more imaginative than the usual suspects here, but still no less transparent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So you accept that there is no shortage of LNG supply globally. Where then is this imagined risk that the UK and Norway will run out of gas and cut us off

    It's a complete red herring. You're trying to simultaneously argue that the UK supplies are perilously low and they'll stop selling to us while also saying the world is awash with gas.

    Which one is it.

    Moffat has always been the transition plan and there's no reason to change that now, other than to increase the speed of our abandonment of fossil fuels



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If I thought it would make any difference, I might engage in a serious discussion with you, but as I said, reminiscent of the Occupy tents. This folks couldn't manage to maintain a single stream of thought for more than a few sentences before they veered off on unrelated tangents.

    Made for quiet hilarious discussions when I kept forcing them to stay on topic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    My point where Ireland is concerned is about LNG, not nuclear, but again you are assuming incorrectly on what the E.U.`s policy on nuclear is.

    It`s nothing to do with "countries that have existing facilities dont feel they have to close them prematurely". Finland opened a new nuclear plant 2 months ago (they have also gone back to using turf as an energy source), and in February France announced plans to build as many as 14 new reactors, and those are not the only E.U. countries doing the same. On expense and poor value you might want to check out a Feb 2021 report commissioned by the European Conservatives and Reformists and the Renew Europe group of the European Parliament on the Netherlands and the Czech Republic that stated "Even when major efficiency improvements in solar and wind farms are taken into account, nuclear energy will remain the cheaper option in 2050."

    On U.S. reserves and LNG you got it completely wrong and other than your own opinion you have shown nothing to back up your claim that it`s not a secure source for Ireland.

    Your assumptions now appear to have moved on to mind reading our energy regulator. It is very clear what she said regarding our energy security and our none compliance with E.U directives, but then when it comes to security you are a bit all over the place. Security and E.U. directives are like pregnancy, you either are or you are not. You cannot be a "bit" secure or a "bit" in E.U. compliance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There is no shortage of natural gas reserves worldwide. There is a shortage of gas in Europe due to the war in Ukraine. where Europe gets 40% of it`s gas from Russia via pipelines. The E.U. and many other countries in Europe recognise that and are looking to LNG to fill that gap. Our great geniuses in the Irish Green party are doing the opposite attempting to ensure we will never be able to avail of a recognised transitional source.

    The U.K. presently is importing over 50% of it`s natural gas requirements and their own fields are becoming depleted. Our supply of gas comes from Norway via the U.K. The U.K. is no longer a member of the E.U. and when it comes to their Brexit nationalist jingoism and sabre rattling with their present attitude towards an internationally recognised protocol, not that far removed from Russia that could easily escalate to a trade war between the U.K. and Europe. Does that sound to you like a country that we have a secure energy supply source from ?

    If it does, then it does not to our own regulator or based on the E.U. directive the E.U. either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Rather contradictory and hilarious considering that when asked if you agreed with the poster on his statements on U.S. reserves and LNG you exited the topic quicker than a cat with its tail on fire. 😅



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    no i am correct on why europe have recognised nuclear as a transition source, it is to allow countries with existing facilities to keep them open until life expirey.

    the plant in finland was committed to years ago and is being opened years late, by the time we finally started growing up and realising we have to deal with climate change it was to far to go for finland to cancel the plant, it would have cost them dearly, they are also lnly using turf temporarily as they don't have much of a supply.

    france isn't having great luck with their designs for nuclear plants so they may want to build more but realistically they won't or will build a hell of a lot less.

    the report that claims nuclear is cheaper then renewables does not tally with the actual evidence, which shows on expensivity that nuclear costs multiples of the cost of using each of the other energy sources as the only energy source to power a country.

    i am correct on everything else also, i just read the facts and the evidence and it all destroys your arguments and points which don't tally with reality.

    lean mean green efficient reliable cheap renewables are going to be our energy source which will bring full energy security and until then our existing strategy of piping gas will be our transition source.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    he didn't exit the topic but rather didn't bother engaging in a particular line of discussion which he wasn't involved in the first place and he has and had no obligation to express an opinion on it unless he chose to which he hasn't.

    i simply quoted a post of his mentioning nuclear so as to counteract your incorrect statement, for which you then began to try and put words in his mouth.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Good, you've established there is no shortage of supply.

    So your considered risk assessment is that the chance that the UK will turn into a hostile state and vindictively shut off Irish gas is so high that we should spend years and over a billion euros building a LNG terminal.

    OK.

    The EU does not care that we are in technical breach of the regulations because the risk of the above is very low probability

    The regulator confirmed that the EU are not pursuing this



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Do yourself a favour and stop digging. You have not got a single thing right so far.

    You were wrong on both the U.S. natural gas reserves and on them supplying the E.U. with 15 billion cubic meters of LNG severly depleting their reserves. You are also wrong on your ramblings on the E.U. and "allowing countries with existing facilities to keep them open until life expiry". The E.U. have no such policy which is clear from Finland only 2 months ago opening a new nuclear plant and France announcing 3 months ago they intend building as many as a further 14 such facilities.

    The report commissioned by the ECR and Renew Europe Group of the European Parliament on the Netherlands and the Czech Republic on nuclear for them being cheaper than renewables, even by 2050, is what it is. If you do not like it then take it up with the E.U.

    Contrary to my posts, of all these facts and evidence you have supposedly read, you haven`t posted a single thing to back up your claims, or to counter the view by our own regulator on our energy security or on our not being in E.U compliance. It has all been nothing other than your own rambling ideas and suppositions that have all been show to be incorrect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I did not try to put words in his mouth. I asked him a question that he declined to answer for a reason he gave which was contradictory to his reason for declining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    When you consider the financial outlay that other E.U. countries are prepared to spend on LNG terminals to ensure their energy security and that 3 proposed wind farms will cost 10 times as much without any guarantee of doing the same, 1 billion is relatively small pennies.

    The E.U. may not be presently pursuing us on none compliance, but there is no guarantee they will continue not too. They can get very tetchy if you remain in none compliance of their directives without making at least some effort to comply. hich is what we are doing, and I doubt they have missed that while they are attempting to ensure E.U. energy security with LNG our wooden-top are attempting to ban it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Our non compliance will be naturally eroded as we pursue the strategy that we have announced already. Every wind farm, solar farm, storage facility and interconnector we build will result in less reliance on gas, improvements inefficiency to reduce domestic gas usage, and move people towards electrical heating etc

    Scotland produce more electricity per year just from wind generation than they use domestically.

    And as we increase our renewable generation and storage capacity, the costs of our electricity will come down, while those still importing LNG gas will be at the mercy of the international markets and global political instability.

    All of these things will result in Ireland becoming much more energy secure over time, and will allow us to become net exporters of electricity.

    The Central European countries are dealing with an acute energy crisis cause by their pipeline being suddenly shut off.

    Ireland does not have this problem as our gas pipelines are not sourced from Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    i'm not digging at all and i am correct on all i have stated, unlike you who continuously has to be corrected by multiple posters but continues with the same incorrect statements.

    LNG in ireland isn't happening and neither is nuclear, it doesn't matter who you insult and call names they are not happening, ever.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Off again in dreamland years upon years down the road totally ignoring the real world of here and now.

    Whether you wish to admit it or not we have a present day problem with a secure energy source that is coming via a none E.U. country with the same jingoistic nationalist traits as Russia, and we see what that is causing in the real world of not just here and now, but the real world for years to come. And our Green Party woodentops answer.... cross your fingers and hope for the best. That is not a policy on energy security, it a quasi-religious belief in the God of renewable energy as a savior when the sh*t hits the fan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Will you ever have a bit of sense and just put down the shovel. Neither you nor anybody else has contradicted what I have said on how incorrect your baseless ramblings and suppositions have been to. Get over it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    your arguments have been destroyed by multiple posters including myself, darcore and others, and the facts and evidence provided across the thread in relation to the efficiency and VFM of various energy sources.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You're just repeating yourself but adding nothing new. You also dont get to say that the renewable energy is 'years away' when it would take just as long to plan and build a LNG plant or explore and onshore new gas supplies.

    It usually takes about 4 years to build a LNG terminal. Even if we started today By mid 2026 the Ukraine crisis will hopefully over and Ireland will have at least 1 additional high capacity interconnection to Europe and many multiple additional GW of renewable generation. LNG faces huge financing issues because they're going to be obsolete soon after they enter operation

    At the same time all the other European countries are ramping up efforts to decarbonise and increase renewable generation capacity because the future is in lower cost renewable power across a transcontinental,modern decentralised grid



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Your not doing yourself any favours posting this kind of nonsense.

    All you are doing is highlighting you chanced your arm on the U.S. reserves of natural gas, your idea that the U.S. would greatly deplete their reserves by shipping 15 Billion cubic meters to the U.S. (a drop in the ocean of their reserves), as well as being caught out chancing your arm on E.U. nuclear policy. You also chanced your arm on Barryroe stating there was little or nothing there without any data to back that up, and when it came to energy security the best you could come up with was you being able to read the energy regulators mind while ignoring what she actually said. On E.U. compliance as to whether you believed it was a cause of just picking what directives suited and ignoring those that did not, nada.

    Just do yourself a favour, move on, but if you are going to post whatever comes into your head in future without anything to back it up then do not be surprised that you will be challenged on it by other posters. A little bit of research before posting can save a lot of embarrassment later.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    your idea that the U.S. would greatly deplete their reserves by shipping 15 Billion cubic meters to the U.S.

    wut?

    Barryroe

    Barryroe has been decimated about 20 times in this thread alone, why are we still talking about it lol. Until the owners can find investors who will stick around and are willing to risk money its just a bit of ocean



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Incidentally, regarding the compliance issue @charlie14 do you have any details on what fines, penalties or prosecutions might occur because of it? What has the EU said about it?

    I'm curious because I know the likes of Derrybrien resulted in humiliating fines for the country.


    There's also many, many , MANY cases where Ireland failed to transpose EU law and was hit with millions in fines and referred to the ECJ

    https://content.next.westlaw.com/practical-law/document/I4ec0893de84e11e398db8b09b4f043e0/Commission-refers-Ireland-to-ECJ-for-failing-to-fully-transpose-EU-energy-rules

    I'm asking because, given the EU's ramping up of renewables in the wake of the Ukraine situation, it will be interesting to see what is being asked of Ireland to rectify the situation. I'm aware what the Irish CER have said in relation to compliance, but what are the EU saying?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    At least I am trying to add a bit of reason where everyday life is concerned. You have been gazing off at nothing other than never never land since day 1.

    Of course 100% reliable renewable energy is "years away", and from last Winter and this Spring for wind even further away. Germany are talking 2 years to build a LNG terminal, a private company here the same. Energy Ireland says the first contribution from new off-shore wind farms is 6 years away if they get all their ducks in a line. Phase 2 of Arklow Bank, the only operating off-shore wind farm, is now not even due to be commissioned until 2028 due to a new consultation regime that has set it back 3 years. There is a lot of rumbling going on as regards fishing grounds and environmental wildlife issues for the proposed new off-shore wind farm sites, so I would not be surprised if the also do not find themselves facing a similar delay. We could have half a dozen LNG plants built by the time anything comes ashore from off-shore wind farms.

    What is it you keep failing to see ? If the war in Ukraine ended in the morning Europe is not going back to Russian gas, and the present energy crisis is due to that.The E.U. and individual countries are attempting to make up the shortfall through LNG, but there is going to be little or none spare capacity rattling around interrconnectors. Same as there is not at the present.

    Countries may be ramping up renewables, but in the real and present world the emphasis is on the here and now where both the E.U. and individual countries are ramping up LNG and LNG terminals to make up for the shortfall from Russian gas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Strange what you will respond to. Asked an inconvenient question and not a creep, yet you then pick up on a mistyped letter in relation to that same question. That really is pretty weird.

    Well you have certainly been attempting to decimate it with some dodgy claims, but in fairness to the poster that is not what he was saying. He was saying that basically there was nothing there. Nobody knows how much is or isn`t there and we are not going to know unless Ryan gets his act together and we can all know for sure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No idea as to what those fines might be, but if you are really interested then just contact the E.U. and ask them.If there are fines as per the E.U. previously being at a daily rate then we better find a faster way of building an LNG terminal than 4 years or we will pay more in fines than the cost of the terminal.



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