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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    official confirmation the 2 mid week games in new zealand are against the maori. would have liked 2 different sides to play against but great test for those not in the test squads

    https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1526291705909100546



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Great to see mid week games, hopefully, we'll see a few when SH teams tour here in the autumn too.

    Also, probably means a bigger squad will tour



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I would have quickly dismissed the notion of Sexton not going to NZ this summer as unrealistic and also not beneficial. But watching the quality of rugby he's playing currently, some of the best of his career, I wonder just how much of that can be attributed to him not going to SA last summer and getting 3 months rest and a full pre-season?

    And considering the RWC is next year, and it's looking increasingly likely that we'll need him given nobody else has put their hand up still, I wonder is their a stronger case than I initially though for giving him the summer off again? Yes it diminishes our chances of a series win in NZ, but the RWC is obviously far more important and having Sexton in the best possible condition for that is crucial to our chances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I believe it's crucial for the back up to get minutes. Maybe start Sexton in one game! I doubt he'll be left at home, he's a key to a victory in N.Z

    The gap needs to be closed between J.S and the next in line. Hopefully, that's not achieved by age and loss of form. Sexton is so far in front of the others. He's still close to world class, atm. I don't see anyone even in the same postal code right now. I doubt we'll see another 10 as good for years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I believe not going helped but not completely for the reasons you gave. As we all know Sexton is a fierce competitor, to not get selected for a Lions series would have absolutely lit a fire under his ass and maybe its what was needed to see this resurgence (although I didnt think he was playing too badly in 2020/2021 imo).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,611 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd



    I know there will be lots to get upset about without being annoyed by this. But I find it a tiny, tiny, bit frustrating that so much of the commentary when we play New Zealand is around JGP and Lowe as key players. It was the same in their post match analysis in November. Its hard to balance, because maybe they're trying to tell a "reject come good story" for their domestic audience, but it also often feels like having a pop at project players, or just generally trying to take credit for a disproportionate amount of Ireland success.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,596 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Theyre simply trying to sell tickets, as indicated by the advertisement at the bottom o f the page.

    The names of James Lowe and Jameson Gibson Park will be better known to target of that advertisement (kiwi public) than say Hugo Keenan or Gary Ringrose.

    i wouldnt envisage any slight in it



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    If he's only going to start one test, I'd say just leave him at home. If you're going to take him, start him in at least two, otherwise I don't see the point. I'd have said we should take him, but I think now I'm leaning towards leaving him at home. There are equally good arguments for or against. But the problem is, there's nobody else who's good enough to start a test v NZ, and we should 100% be gunning for at least a test win. NZ are going to be taking this series very seriously. They'll be going out to thrash us 3-0 after the November they had.

    Whatever about the test series, I'd definitely give Ben Healy both Maori games. I think he's come on a lot this season. And maybe cap him off the bench in the 3rd test to tie him down if the series is gone by then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Healy is deserving and I think he's going to play very well. HB might get a nod for the bench v the Maori.

    The quality difference is stark between Sexton and almost everyone else! Who's a better 10 right now? Ntamak? That's about it. Maybe just one. It's mad!



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Who are the four Kiwis?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I’d imagine JGP, Lowe, Aki and Carbery are the 4 they’re referring to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I made the same point a few weeks ago.

    All the irish players who went on the full lions tour have had injury or form issues this year.

    A summer off would be more benefit to sexton. Or a sabitical when he comes back until after Xmas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I don't think we'll take fours 10s. I'd imagine we'll take three with Frawley or Lowry covering in the Maori games.

    H.Byrne just hasn't played enough rugby to be considered IMO. He showed tonnes of promise for the 20s and throughout the 19/20 season, but the last two seasons have just been a complete disaster for him.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ah of course, for NZ fans more familiar with u10s rugby than the international game and who would remember Joey!


    To be honest I thought they might count Carbery but had completely forgotten Aki.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Agree on Healy but I wouldn't have HB anywhere near this tour tbh. Yes he's had injuries but nothing he has done in blue warrents a call up at this stage. Would much rather see Ross get another bite of the cherry playing behind of confident pack, or see what Jack Crowley could do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,992 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Very hard to see Harry Byrne travelling unless he really, really impressed in previous call-ups to camp. His very rare appearances for Leinster this season have been underwhelming at best.

    I don't think Healy has really done anything against decent opposition to make a claim for being international standard but maybe he's worth a look given the absence of strong alternatives.

    Otherwise it's Ross Byrne for me, even knowing that he'll likely never rise above squad cover.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Healy had very good games against Castres and Wasps in the group stage. He held his own away to Exeter too without being spectacular. They're the only European games he's started as Carbery seems to be the automatic first choice for some reason. He had the bottle to step up and take two massive drop kicks against Toulouse when Carbery didn't.

    He's had a few strong performances in the URC from memory. Scarlets and Cardiff are two that come to mind but overall he's been very consistent when he's started. He's got a confidence about him without being arrogant which I also like and he's still just 22.

    I'm not saying he's amazing or anything but I think he's definitely the most worthy of starting the Maori games out of the options we have. I actually think he'd thrive within the structure Ireland play to. He's got a phenomenal pass off either side.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He had the bottle to step up and take two massive drop kicks against Toulouse when Carbery didn't.

    I don't think both were drop-goals tho, right? The first, on 80 was a penalty inside Munster's half, and I think it's fair to say Healy has a longer range than Carbery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I remember two drop goal attempts, in addition to the long penalty.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Fair enough. It all got a bit hazy after a certain point..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Moving away from the out half position for once...

    surely Baloucoune has the 14 shirt nailed down?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    How is it nailed down when he's never held it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Clontarf_Jazz


     Re Baloucoune - are you having a laugh - did you see him against Toulouse - the invisible man (beside his stupid avoidable yellow)- he needs to watch a few vids of Lowe and Mack Hansen and go looking for work instead of faffing around on his wing waiting for a pass



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Our back three for the first New Zealand test will probably be Lowe, Keenan and one of Hansen/Conway.

    Baloucoune is a very good player, but he's clearly behind other wings in an Irish jersey. Lowe and Hansen had good Six Nations and the former has been shooting the lights out in the Champions Cup. Conway also has a lot of credit in the bank.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd like to see him getting a start in one of the Tests, but Farrell seems to really like both Conway and Hansen. We're pretty stacked at wing, to be fair.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Any word on how Stockdale's injury is going?

    Typically we've brought 1 dedicated FB and then 4 wings to RWC's (with various cover options etc.). Some really good options are going to miss out.

    At the moment, I'd imagine it's Keenan, Lowe, Hansen, Conway and one more out of Baloucoune, Stockdale, Larmour, Earls? Does Lowry go as FB and emergency 10 cover? Or someone like Jimmy O'Brien could be a bolter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Hansen's ability to play as 1st receiver sets him above Balacoune, which is a shame as I'd really like to see him get a run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I don't think Lowe and Hansen went particularly well when playing together v Italy and Scotland. They're both quite similar in the way they play, always coming off their wing, getting involved, creating overlaps and linking play. But I feel like you need at least one winger with out-and-out pace who can beat a man one-on-one. That's why I'd go for Baloucoune on one wing and Lowe on the other. That's the best combo with the right mix of skill sets IMO. Baloucoune is also a very skilled footballer and quality reader of the game, which I think goes under the radar a bit. His performance away to Toulouse was phenomenal. He's definitely not just a pace merchant. He also can and does come off his wing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




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