Fall of the Catholic Church

That's my point - the can't. Or shouldn't. And if they are, stop outsourcing to them.

There were other ways they could have gone. There still are. But no one is willing to change.

What is this nonsense?

Do you think it is normal to dress eight year old girls up as mini-brides and tell them they're eating the body of someone who died 2,000 years ago?

Do you think it is normal to tell people that a normal, healthy activities like masturbation or homosexual sex are wrong and sinful and will get you condemned to fiery hell for eternity?

The Church left normality behind a long time ago.

What do you mean just not on the State’s ticket? If the State is being provided with a service, it has an obligation to pay the service provider, whether it’s the Church or any other organisation providing their services to the State, such as any of the over 500 Approved Housing Bodies, a number of which are religious in nature. The full list is here -

https://www.ahbregulator.ie/app/uploads/2022/05/AHBRA-Register-of-AHBs-April-2022.xlsx

It’s true that any service provider is generally prohibited from discrimination, but there are exemptions under certain circumstances by which they are permitted to discriminate provided the discrimination is the only reasonable means of achieving a legitimate aim, such as maintaining the ethos of a school or establishment in the provision of their services to the public.

Yes Andrew those things are normal, you really haven’t been to Church in a while, have you? I don’t expect you’ll offer an answer to that question either, while claiming that everyone should adhere to your standards of what you consider normal, even though the prevalence of your views in society suggests they are very much the definition of abnormal given they are only held by a minority of people in Irish society.

The difference between us is that I respect your rights to hold and to express your views, abhorrent and all as I think they are, whereas you would try and suppress anyone’s views which deviate from your narrow minded view of Irish society.

I’ll be honest Leroy, if Andrew is incapable of engaging in a discussion in good faith, I’m incapable of taking his effort of a risible argument seriously.

Andrew asked me were the views he pointed to regarding girls wearing communion dresses normal, they are. To tell them they’re eating the body of someone that died 2,000 years ago? Yep, that’s normal too.

Healthy activities like masturbation and homosexual sex are wrong and sinful? Yep, that’s normal too. The condemned to fiery hell for all eternity is more of an Evangelical thing than Catholic teaching, but among Evangelicals the condemnation to fiery hell for all eternity is normal, I wasn’t gonna argue over semantics when it’s clear Andrew was engaging in hyperbolic nonsense designed to provoke a reaction like he’s a ten year old child in the playground that suddenly discovered the power of the word ‘gay’ and was determined to humiliate his targets by using it on them.

Your point is very different to Andrew’s in that you’re referring to amendments to the Irish Constitution, which is quite distinct from Canon Law. The referenda you’re referring to were in relation to Civil Law - repeal of the 8th amendment, decriminalisation of homosexuality, divorce and while not even close to coming to fruition, increasing calls for non-religious schools which doesn’t require any change in Irish law, they are all positions which are separate from the Church.

They are also minority positions, and I doubt you’re seriously considering arguing that people generally discuss masturbation outside of the confines of the schoolyard where children, boys in particular, will often provoke other boys by calling them **** and expressing their belief that 98% of men are ****, the other 2% are liars.

Abortion and divorce are also not normally discussed in general conversation in the same way as Communions, Confirmations, White Weddings, etc are talked about, not nearly as frequently or in such positive and glowing terms.

The reason that not just very few, but nobody has claimed that people are actually invested in the Church itself is because there’s no need for anyone to defend themselves against the allegations of a tiny minority of people who make the point that all the evidence suggests to them that people aren’t invested in the Church, as if people should have to prove themselves to anyone? I don’t think people should have to prove themselves to anyone, and certainly not to people who are determined to humiliate into submission anyone who doesn’t share their views.

Fortunately for everyone else in society, they are free to ignore the minority of people who only wish they had the authority to bring about the suppression of belief by suppressing the people who hold those beliefs. Historically speaking, that’s never gone down well in any society, which is why I support the establishment of schools which are not religious in nature, while I don’t support the attempt to “get religion out of schools”, because as well as that makes no sense whatsoever, it would also be a violation of international human rights laws and standards, which is something I’d rather wasn’t imposed upon the people of Ireland.

I really don’t concern myself with the idea of that happening anyway tbh as the chances of it happening are about as likely as Jesus making a comeback 😏

EDIT: the absolute irony that the word ‘wänkers’ is censored by Vanilla 😂

In spite of programmes like States of Fear etc., they're in general still far too deferential towards it and afraid of it. Bong!

It's a discussion site, you're allowed respond to anyone whether Flinty says it's ok or not.

The state is the customer and has paid for the ticket. And it should, as a secular state, be asking for a secular service.

Now, if the contractor - in this case the church - can not or is not providing said service , the contract needs to be reviewed and the ticket needs to be checked.

The point is the Angelus isn't solely RC.

I don't care what they or you think either.

....and we are back to "its a business"...

So what did the state ask for?