Buffalo mass shooting - Great Replacement Theory & the long trail of blood

timmyntc · 18-05-2022 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081549#Comment_119081549

Why do the United Nations use the term replacement migration then? Why do they describe it as

the international migration that would be needed to offset declines in the size of population, the declines in the population of working age, as well as to offset the overall ageing of a population.

What is the difference? How is this any different to what I've been saying all thread, that taking migrants to stop our population from declining is by definition replacement?

And what the hell is the Kalergi plan? A quick search mentions race mixing, how is that anything to do with replacement migration?

Overheal · 18-05-2022 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081527#Comment_119081527

What they're replacing in that excerpt is a social construct: an anticipated population level.

They talk about brining in migrants to replace people who died, eg. suggesting that for one, the US could import 1 million workers to replace the 1 million who died from Covid, and that would keep the current workforce stable. But the workforce is a social construct. Someone who lost a granny from Covid isn't getting a new Mexican granny (but Walmart could replace an elderly American receipt checker with an elderly Mexican wan)

They aren't talking about replacing the person in that context as you said, but the missing lugnut in the wheels of the intermeshed economy.

But the GRT people are talking about it like you're suggesting the doom of their pureblood race, as though they won't be allowed to raise pureblood children. They're trying to rationalize why more and more of their neighbors don't look like them, even if they are fellow countrymen. That's why they make these chillingly laid out plans to exterminate who they see as muggle and half breed.

ancapailldorcha · 18-05-2022 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081562#Comment_119081562

They're talking about economics, you're rabbiting on about race. That's the difference.

Overheal · 18-05-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081562#Comment_119081562

I've only recently heard the term as well

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/24/tiktok-posts/no-there-no-kalergi-plan-replace-europeans-migrant/

• Kalergi supported a strong, united European continent and believed that the European civilization would “absorb” other cultures, not be replaced by them.

• A conspiracy theory around Kalergi’s work is based on distortions of his writings and fabrications by Nazis and neo-Nazis.

...

The "Kalergi plan" conspiracy theory is a European variation of the conspiracy theories about "white genocide" that have been mentioned by mainstream American conservatives in recent years, and that inspired the gunman who killed 51 people at two mosques in New Zealand in 2019 and shooters in two synagogues in the United States.

It's bundled up with GRT.

Quin_Dub · 18-05-2022 4:29pm

Simple question for everyone.

At what point does a person become a "European" or "American" or "Irish" for that matter?

If you weren't born there does that mean you can never be "local"

Are your children "local" if they are born there?

Or do we need to go out a few more generations?

What's the cut-off point between "Native" and "Foreign" ??

Migration has always happened , people go to where the jobs and opportunities are - Fully 95%+ of the current US population can trace their history back to some other country , their forebears moved (or were moved)for work.

That's what's happening now and what will continue to happen for as long as one place has better jobs/opportunities than an other.

The "Great Replacement Theory" suggests that this movement is being planned by some hidden cabal with the express intent of shifting the political or moral compass of the destination for their benefit by shifting the demographics in a specific direction.

If the question is "Are immigrants moving to Europe/US etc. ?" then the answer is of course yes - They always have and always will.

If the question is "Is this movement part of a master plan to shift the political/moral landscape of the destination countries?" then the answer is an emphatic categoric No.

But Tucker Carlson thinks it is deliberate and he and others repeat it often enough with sufficient vitriol and "righteous anger" that eventually some damaged individual decides to take action and innocent people die.

That's the conversation here. Not whether you feel uncomfortable around Brown faces...

ArthurDayne · 18-05-2022 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081527#Comment_119081527

Hmm, that report says: “Replacement migration refers to the international migration that would be needed to offset declines in the size of population, the declines in the population of working age, as well as to offset the overall ageing of a population.”

It’s referring more loosely to a concept of population increase via migrant intake versus population increase via births within the country — it’s not talking about a concept of entire peoples being replaced. For example, it appears from some posts I’ve read on here that Great Replacement Theory doesn’t just mean immigration rates outstripping birth rates — it means both immigration rates and/or birth rates among migrants (thus, also including children born in the State to migrant parents) outstripping so-called native parent birth rates. So it’s going far beyond a report about how immigration rates might compensate for native births in terms of pure population growth — it’s going to the point of saying that immigration affecting demographics equals replacement of a people (i.e. a black child of migrant parents has ‘replaced’ a white person). Oh yes, and Great Replacement Theory doesn’t just seem to consider this phenomenon in a balanced, measured way — instead it seems to insist we should be terrified of it.

Overheal · 18-05-2022 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081653#Comment_119081653

"Where are you from Overheal" "Clarecastle" I would answer back for many years. "Well yeah, but" etc. came after because of course, the accent. But I would think I'm a local foreigner if I take up residence there, work there, learn there. I'm not Irish, don't have a passport, never pursued one nor eligible for one on a student visa underneath another's work visa. If I'd had a baby with an Irish citizen our child would be Irish, regardless of the genetics.

In Texas, Georgia etc. there are a lot of Vietnamese- and Korean-Americans, their children are natural born Americans (because the USA co-opted the term that's why), a lot of them immigrated here in the 20th century. They're native Texans, etc.

Overheal · 18-05-2022 5:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081109#Comment_119081109

On the contrary I posit there is prolific media propaganda out there over egging the pudding as it were as it regards the state of migration. Someone gets on TV 5 nights a week, multiple other times as a guest or radio host elsewhere, and eggs the pudding for GRT, that gets us invariably to the next tragedy.

Nermal · 18-05-2022 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081653#Comment_119081653

While there is no 'hidden cabal', it's also wrong to present mass migration as some kind of inevitable force of nature akin to the sun rising.

It is enabled by policy decisions made in the US/Europe, and there are interests on both the left and right that want it to continue - for reasons of self-interest and on principle.

That's not a conspiracy, that's a matter of public record.

Dyr · 18-05-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081653#Comment_119081653

Ah now that the tautology has been abandoned as a bad job we move onto the next phase, as I predicted, "What difference does it make" with a dash of its usual precusor "nothings changed, it was always like this" 😂

Hmm...when was the last time Irelands non Irish population was at the level it currently is? Our fathers time? Nah Our grandfathers time? Nah. The Famine? Nah The Plantations? Not an example you'd want to make 🤔.

I suppose the last time Europe had a significant Muslim population it was due to an unfortunate series of events that ended up in some determined military action to reverse the trend. Not exactly a shining example for the "it was always like this" argument

"It was always like this" It was in its hole. Unless you lived in the Balkans, another shining example. 😂

Dyr · 18-05-2022 5:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081549#Comment_119081549

"Replacment migration doesnt mean replacement migration you're reading it wrong, they're just replacing an ageing native population with a younger, non native population bro, it's completely different"

Overheal · 18-05-2022 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082024#Comment_119082024

Which is nothing like what Anc said. Are you going to keep doing this bad faith clap all thread?

18-05-2022 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082005#Comment_119082005

Eh, the fact we were historically insular isn't exactly proof of anything. Ireland is a substantially different country to what it was twenty or thirty years ago. Now we do have a migrant population cause we're an affluent country. Go back a couple of decades or centuries and we were migrating to other countries.

Dyr · 18-05-2022 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082044#Comment_119082044

So that chap Quindubs "it was ever thus" point is bunkum is what you're saying?

What about the UK and Germany? also Bunkum?

Quin_Dub · 18-05-2022 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082005#Comment_119082005

Ireland didn't have immigration until recently because Ireland was largely a sh!thole with no jobs or prospects , so it was the Irish that went in the opposite direction to all points of the compass , where our forebears were met by people like you - Complaining about us being dirty filthy low brow papists who would drag the place down and change the country for the worse..Imagine that!

Immigration from poorer/worse places to richer/better places has always happened and will always happen.

Ireland shifting from one side of that equation to the other side over the last ~25 years or so doesn't change that underlying fact.

Dyr · 18-05-2022 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082087#Comment_119082087

Interesting opinion, I do believe the Native Americans were quite unhappy about us Irish and other Europeans invading their country and replacing them. One assumes they were just very racist.

I don't believe I've proferred much of an opinion one way or tother for your flight of fancy. We havent even gotten past you lot admitting the current actual state of affairs. Do you know concede that the current migration levels of non Europeans into European countres was not actually the normal state of affairs for previous generations?

goldenmick · 18-05-2022 6:18pm

Cant believe that some people actually think white people are being deliberately pushed out.

This belongs with all the other nut jobs in the conspiracy theories threads.

Great Replacement Theory......

RobbieTheRobber · 18-05-2022 6:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082109#Comment_119082109

Previous generations didn't have lots of things we have today. Should we get rid of all the those things we didn't have in previous generations.

What historical time and conditions should Ireland reset itself to Dyr.

Is the 1980's when we had low immigration and high emigration as well high unemployment sufficent for you. Or should we look to reset our society to some point further back in time when things were different.

Dyr · 18-05-2022 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082168#Comment_119082168

So have you gone past denying that this demographic change has precendent and moved onto the "why does it matter anyway?" stage?

Quin_Dub · 18-05-2022 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082109#Comment_119082109

So now you are equating an actual genocide with regular immigration , that seems reasonable and not in the least bit unnecessary.

In terms of European immigration , again as with Ireland some countries have shifted from the emigrant side of the equation to the immigrant side - Italy and Spain being obvious examples , but the totality of immigration hasn't really changed.

Fundamentally though I believe you are coming from a position that "Non European" (Muslim specifically from your posts) immigration is inherently bad and will inevitably lead to damaging changes to your lifestyle.

I don't believe that to be the case - Immigration could have a negative impact , but that is by no means certain and the mitigation for that is not blocking people seeking a better life , but doing a better job with integration and assimilation.

NSAman · 18-05-2022 7:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119078822#Comment_119078822

So basically, one mass murder is terrible but 75 individual murders in one city on a weekend is ok?

Chicago is no red herring. It is indicative that black on black murder is swept under the carpet. Forgive me but those kids have families too! Sensationalise one murder, he’s a nut job, yes he has hate, but it doesn’t make one ounce of difference. Dead is dead, those brothers sisters etc…ain’t coming back.

guns are the issue. Guns with sick hate filled people with low intelligence is the issue.

18-05-2022 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082109#Comment_119082109

Honestly, as a nation with a history of being invaded. You'd think that you'd have the basic intelligence to differentiate between ordinary migration and invasion. But apparently not.

18-05-2022 7:54pm

I think the real great replacement theory is the loss of generally intelligent and thoughtful posters, to be replaced by gullible loons who believe any old sh*te

Manach · 18-05-2022 8:26pm

The OP poses a challenge. Normally he is someone I ignore given his rather Leftish bubble of opinion and his sneering distain for those his opinions differ from. However, that while the great replacement theory is one name to describe demographic change, it is undeniable that in the West we are experiencing mass migration from countries and this is being encouraged for both ideological reasons (the oringal sin of Western Imperialism) and as a means to lock in the voting blocks of the newly arrived immigrants. This is not my own observation, but that of the writter Douglas Murray, whose work "The strange death of Europe" goes into detail how this continent's demographics are changing in an effect to keep entrenched political blocks in place - giving example of the UK's Labour party. Ironically Mr. Murray describes, albeit in more academic terms, the tactics of "Point and Shriek" used so often by the OP to attempt to stiffle dissent.

Overheal · 18-05-2022 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082682#Comment_119082682

...

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1107710407723098113?s=20&t=lZKuA753twbNNbfrbDDdtw

martingriff · 18-05-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081338#Comment_119081338

Are they replacements or did you just buy 2 more apples

Miadhc · 18-05-2022 9:00pm

The System actually managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of their victory with the Buffalo shooting.

Instead of sticking to the winnable argument "gunning down unarmed civilians because of demographic replacement is wrong," they switched to the utterly losing strategy of "demographic replacement isn't happening and it's immoral to say so!"

🤔

Imagine having such an advantage in propaganda, and squandering it so badly and so quickly.

Dyr · 18-05-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082682#Comment_119082682

But Douglas Murray is......waaaacissst!!

RobbieTheRobber · 18-05-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082682#Comment_119082682

Point and shreik and the uk go synonymous in my mind with brexit supporting yoohaas screaming "REMOANERS" at anyone who argued against brexit. But at least that's going swimmingly. I wonder when brexit will get around to be being blamed on the Labour Party.

By the by Mr Murrays book was published in the 7th year of the current tory governments reign but something something all the lefts fault. Right

John Doe1 · 18-05-2022 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246260/buffalo-mass-shooting-great-replacement-theory-the-long-trail-of-blood

I dont know much about this great replacement theory thing but White Americans will be a minority by 2045.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/03/14/the-us-will-become-minority-white-in-2045-census-projects/

I put a lot of the blame for these kind of extremist activities on America not having a mostly neutral news service like BBC news, instead they have editorials parroting the owners views.

kowloon · 19-05-2022 12:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082087#Comment_119082087

More generally, populations will thrive in an abundance or resources and wither in scarsity. True in Ireland today, true throughout human history. Our history can be seen as just constant shifts of populations, like a shifting ecosystem looking to find equilibrium. The herds moving to the good grazing is as close to inevitable as you're likely to find.

Overheal · 19-05-2022 1:33am

Seems to be a lack of good faith in viewpoint from the lead GRT expert:

https://twitter.com/TheBeatWithAri/status/1527057646263717891?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1527057646263717891%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediaite.com%2Ftv%2Fhes-lying-ari-melber-shreds-dangerous-tucker-carlson-for-claiming-not-to-know-what-replacement-theory-is%2F

Mr_Jacko · 19-05-2022 5:37am

That tucker lad has such a punchable face!

ancapailldorcha · 19-05-2022 6:57am

If Douglas Murray is what the far right have to offer as an intellectual then they're stupider than anyone thought.

Mad_maxx · 19-05-2022 7:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083703#Comment_119083703

He isn't far right but he is a great thinker

pjohnson · 19-05-2022 7:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083703#Comment_119083703

Well with the state of most of the far right creatures Murray is Einstein compared to them.

ancapailldorcha · 19-05-2022 7:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083727#Comment_119083727

I doubt it.

The poster who dropped his name here is someone I once respected a great deal despite being on the other end of the political spectrum. Here, he's just seagulling by dropped his name here and insulting the OP. No effort has been made to contribute anything to the debate. Honestly, typing something like "Lol, loser OP and the libtards can't handle Murray" would have saved him time.

magicbastarder · 19-05-2022 7:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083364#Comment_119083364

how do they define white? if your mother is white and your father is black, are you defined as black?

fewer than 1 in 25 of the american population being multiracial is an interesting stat, i wonder how fluid the definitions are. self-declared?

Mike Murdock · 19-05-2022 8:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083364#Comment_119083364

The BBC is not neutral. It took a pretty firm Anti-Brexit stance, and a number of their shows in front of audiences are skewed to the left too.

Centre-left, but certainly not neutral.

Mike Murdock · 19-05-2022 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083703#Comment_119083703

Douglas Murray is no more Far Right than Jordan Peterson or Joe Rogan.

Honestly, those of you on the left embarrass yourselves when you make those comparisons.

Dyr · 19-05-2022 8:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083540#Comment_119083540

So there's been similar demographic shifts throughout Ireland history?

RobbieTheRobber · 19-05-2022 8:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083891#Comment_119083891

Are Irish people being replaced?

Mike Murdock · 19-05-2022 8:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083891#Comment_119083891

Irish people have left this country in their hundred's of thousands to seek better lives during times of economic turmoil. Hundred's of thousands of Poles came to Ireland in the Noughties to work here once Poland joined the EU. Again, for economic reasons.

Irish people are not being replaced.

timmyntc · 19-05-2022 8:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081585#Comment_119081585

That is quite literally what I have been referring to all thread - replacement migration at the population level. Several posters here denied it even existed, and now theyre backtracking saying its real but about population/economics

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081610#Comment_119081610

They are talking about population demographics, same as I am. Not economics. People are not money, they are demographics. In this case its stratified by age and working status - the UN talk about trying to keep up number of working taxpayers by bolstering it with immigration. Sure a few posts ago you denied replacement migration was even a thing!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081654#Comment_119081654

That is exactly what I have been referring to all thread - for the last time, I do not believe in the great replacement theory or any theory to replace white people, however I do acknowledge that for economic/demographic reasons, we are currently undergoing a form of "replacement migration" as the UN described. If we were not we would be facing the mother of all pension timebombs as the number of old pensioner vastly outnumber the young workers who pay their pensions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083976#Comment_119083976

Irish people are not being replaced because up until quite recently Irish birthrates were above the replacement level. How can you replace something thats growing in numbers??

Wibbs · 19-05-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083891#Comment_119083891

There have been very few. There was one shift in the mesolithic where the original hunter gatherers were replaced by incoming farmers. This happened across Europe at roughly the same time. The later Celtic influence seems to have been much more about cultural ideas than movements of people. Then we had the Vikings/Normans on the back of invasion. Then the Plantations on the back of same. That's about it.

The current immigration trend here and across Europe is a post WW2 trend, when the old European imperial nations lost their empires and many from those old empires moved to the various "motherlands" and were welcomed as labour sources. Welcomed at first, but subsequent generations of those first migrants realised there was a large amount of BS in real world practial terms about multiculturalism if you didn't look like the "natives". Add in post imperial guilt and here we are. Well less so Ireland as we had no empire and were under imperial rule ourselves.

America is a different case as it was founded upon immigration, and slavery of course. America's record on being a "melting pot" is a largely negative one and as they started to acknowledge that in civil rights politics they tried to get the melting pot working, because it had to work. Judging by the current differences in average life outcomes between African Americans and European Americans it's got some way to go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119083364#Comment_119083364

Again looking to America is not such a good idea with their daft notions of "race". Note how the survey shows Hispanics will make up a quarter of Americans when "White" is a minority in 2045.

Non White people. Apparently.

And there are two actual born and bred European Spaniards in that line up. So in America being an Italian American is "White", but being a born in Spain Spaniard is not?

ArthurDayne · 19-05-2022 8:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084026#Comment_119084026

Well, it didn’t sound like that’s what you meant by “replacement” and it absolutely doesn’t appear to be the case that Great Replacement Theory refers to immigration ‘replacing’ native’ births in terms of pure population growth. Did you not say a few pages back that births by immigrant parents are also part of the ‘replacement’ or was that someone else?

From what I gather, in all the things I’ve read and watched about this Great Replacement, its view of replacement means nothing more than a vista where the white people of majority white nations will be ‘replaced’ as a people — that in a couple of generations Ireland could be majority black / brown / non-white and this means we would be ‘replaced’. This is very different from weighing up how immigration can ‘replace’ births as a means of maintaining population.

timmyntc · 19-05-2022 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084119#Comment_119084119

Did you not say a few pages back that births by immigrant parents are also part of the ‘replacement’ or was that someone else?

No, I have literally not said anything like that all thread.

The great replacement theory is BS, but its based on the true replacement migration trends in western countries that have below replacement birth rates. Basically they took this fact, ignored the reason behind it (immigration needed to sustain working population and avoid a pension timebomb), and instead attributed it to some evil white people who want other white people to go extinct and are masterminding all this immigration for that reason. Lord knows why that would be.