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Buffalo mass shooting - Great Replacement Theory & the long trail of blood

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Some things that are hard to refute from my understanding of the theory, which isn't a real theory (because it's a conspiracy theory right? )or concise, so makes the whole thing subjective, but anyway.....



    1. Immigration is deliberately engineered.

    2. Immigration is politically and ethnically motivated.

    3. Immigration will lead to the ethnic displacement of Whites and the potential extinction of some White ethnic groups.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Basically and they're mad as hell to the point of bullets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You already understand what "European" means in relation to people. "European" has been as a descriptor for people for a very long time and is very well establised. In the same way that African, Asian and so forth are. You know this and everyone else does. You do realise people see through the constant attempts to redefine terms deflection?

    For the sake of your argument the term is used to describe the people who are native to Europe. If you want an example, Maghrebis are not Europeans.

    Is the next fallback "what does "native" mean" 😂


    You realise people see through the constant attempts to redefine terms as nothing more than deflection?



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko




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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    “Progressive liberals, neo-Marxists dazed by the woke dream, people financed by George Soros and promoters of open societies … want to annihilate the Western way of life that you and us love so much,” Orban said during his speech.


    “We must coordinate the movement of our troops as we face a big test, 2024 will be a decisive year,” he added, and “reconquer the institutions in Washington D.C. and Brussels.”


    Orban also praised Carlson, who broadcast his Fox News show from Hungary for a week in 2021, as the only American media figure willing to challenge “the rule of the liberal media.”


    While his keynote address offered plenty of red meat for his right-wing audience made up of prominent American and European leaders and media figures, it was his comments in a speech on Monday that made headlines around the world.


    Orban took his oath of office on Monday for a fourth consecutive term leading a country where critics claim he has successfully gutted civil liberties and impeded the democratic process.

    During his remarks, Orban echoed the controversial replacement theory and claimed that liberal Europeans are pushing a “suicide attempt” by implementing “the great European population replacement program.”


    Orban went on to say that the left is working to “replace the missing European Christian children with migrants.”


    The so-called replacement theory has become a central topic of conversation in the United States after the accused Buffalo shooter cited it in the online screed he allegedly wrote laying out his motivations for killing ten Black Americans in a grocery store. Critics have blamed right-wing American media personalities for pushing the ideology that claims left-leaning leaders want to engineer demographic change to disenfranchise right-leaning voters.


    The Guardian pointed out that Orban also took aim at LGBTQ rights in the U.S. and Europe, a rising talking point in the culture wars dominating American politics today.


    “Echoing another popular theme on the American right, he argued that another form of cultural suicide was ‘gender madness’, a reference to the spread of LGBTQ+ rights in the west,” the Guardian reported.

    Orban has a long history of inflammatory rhetoric from his longstanding attacks on billionaire George Soros to statements defending his nationalist policies as “illiberal democracy” meant to preserve Hungarian culture. In 2018, he sparked fury by saying, “We do not want our own color, traditions, and national culture to be mixed with those of others.”


    Other prominent U.S. media figures to speak at the conference include Candace Owens and Jack Posobiec. Former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, will address the conference virtually on Friday.


    Other prominent right-wing European leaders addressing the conference include the former head of the U.K.’s Independence Party, Nigel Farage, Herbert Kickl, head of the Austrian Freedom Party, and Santiago Abascal, the President of Spain’s Vox party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    So you're disputing that my definition of "European" as it applies to people is not the same defintion that has been in common use since time immemorial?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I'm disputing, as I have for 300 posts now that you are not at all arguing in good faith.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Ok

    Of course, numbskulls like Orban don’t shy away from pointing to anyone in their « native » population that doesn’t conform to a given aspect of nationality, and therefore authenticity, and plain old acceptability. The gypsies, the homos; all to be thrown under the bus, or suppressed.


    Guys like Carlson are just tilling the soil and planting the seeds of discord on a vast scale for idiots like Chump to effect a comeback. These are gloomy effing times à la power of ten.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 48 porkmaster


    What is a goose?

    It's an elephant with the right paperwork.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Which humorously sums up a lot of the chaffe in the topic.

    Boils down however to the culmination of all facts, politics, policy, and rhetoric, incl. from Bully Pulpits used by eg. Carlson and Orban, and even the manifestos of previous shooters, don't talk themselves down by the same means or semantics. They're purebloods, and they want to kill the mongrels, whether they consider themselves proudly white, proudly european, or whatever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    And you accuse others of arguing in bad faith?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I'm not sure I understand your question/loaded-accusation, please elaborate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    I'm sure you do understand though. There's a name for that...



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭Ush1




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    people don't use these kind of arguments wrt Native Americans or Palestinians or Inuit, "ah sure people are people, does it really matter if there are ten million Tibetans here or ten million Han?"

    Emigration and immigration are not "natural", they are the result of choices - we could choose to take 10 million or we could choose to take none.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Fox Guest calls Fox News out on pushing GRT, gets shut down by nervous host about 'letting them adjudicate' the shooting and signaling they wanted to stay the hell away from it... lol

    "We also have to remember the ‘Great Replacement’ theory that has been spewed on this network alone, and the Buffalo shooter referenced it. These are all remnants of the Republican party. That’s the party of hate."


    “We’re gonna let them adjudicate that case without us commenting on it,” Faulkner responded, and when she turned the floor over to Charlie Hurt, he said “I just think the idea of taking a horrible, horrible, unthinkable tragedy like what we saw in Buffalo, New York and trying to advance a partisan political agenda off of it is just beyond reprehensible to me.”

    This was Fox News advancing a partisan political agenda last night off the tragedy


    A Buffalo survivor recalls during his dry run, the shooter asked her (white, WRT Wibbs) why she worked at 'an all black store'




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,151 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Slaves. Not exactly a great point for migration.

    Roman culture was a mix, but it was far less a mix of people. And of course they were an imperial power, so what people did migrate into the greater Roman world, or were subjugated by it, to have any chance of an easy life and certainly a prosperous one aping Roman customs and culture was a given. So adopting the dress, religion, language, building styles, naming your kids with Roman names etc. Or they were a slave. They were at times very proud of the "world" being represented in Rome, where you could see and hear "foreigners" about the place. At the same time it was considered good business and on the statutes of slave trading to declare where your slave was from, as different origins got different prices. Those from "evil nations" were cheaper.

    And given your examples of the goths etc migration it seems the locals had very good reason to be fearful of the other as when they crossed the Rhine that was the death knell of their culture and empire. Even simple things like pottery stopped being produced, with literacy and writing fell off a cliff for a couple of centuries. Again not a great point for migration. There's a reason we still call those who destroy things with no obvious purpose "vandals".

    So to recap: Your examples of stable and successful societies of the past with "diversity" were either diverse because of slavery, or empire building subjugating the other and in each case the dominant culture was, well, dominant and only multicultural if and when it suited the dominant culture and when it started to lose that dominance the culture was on the way out.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    If we all harken back to the Hun and Vandal invasions to prove our modern world’s incompatible mixes of population, we might as well call it quits as humanity goes.


    But , I’ll give you that, at least the Huns and Vandals were scoping out European tributes. You’d probably have to eliminate Hungarians from the list of prospective immigrants of host countries.


    One thing about Orban’s sucking up to Poutine’s nationalism mixed in with his love of Native culture:

    I was in Budapest for the 60th anniversary of the uprising. I remember distinctly how the commemorators had placed a Soviet tank pointing its gun at the National Museum the way the Russians had decades before. There is so much mutual respect for cultures among them lil' kinglets. That’s probably what is playing out in Ukraine right now. One man’s Torturer is another one’s saviour.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,151 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yeah. African populations have the widest genetic diversity as Africa is where anatomically modern humans evolved and then later on got the wanderlust(like Homo Erectus way before that. Those buggers were like New Zealander college students😁) and spread into the rest of the world. A Norwegian and a Greek are more related to each other than say a Gongalese and a Tanzanian living twenty miles from each other could be. When some of us left Africa it got interesting as we were going into places where there were already people and got jiggy with them. Europeans and Asians have archaic hominid genes and active ones too, so clearly had/have some purpose if they've survived even down to today. An obvious one is Nepalese and Tibetan folks who got genes from Denisovans that give them a big advantage in living at altitude. Africans have their own archaic admixture but recovering readable DNA in those climates is difficult, but there are clues in living people.

    The interesting thing about pale skin is native Tasmanians who lived in a climate very like Europe only on the other side of the world were and remained a very dark people over tens of thousands of years. Farming may have been the driver in the northern hemisphere. That because Tasmanians never developed agriculture their hunter gatherer diet being more varied and nutricious than a farmers diet meant they got folic acid and vit D from their food, so didn't need to evolve pale skin(though Neandertals who had a similar lifestyle had pale skin, with a couple of gingers thrown in. Different genes to us though). Asians can be very pale, but their pale adaptation uses different genes to Europeans. Better genes too. EG they have about the same rates of skin cancer as Africans and are less prone to sun based skin damage than pale Europeans.

    But I digress. 😁

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,151 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    If we all harken back to the Hun and Vandal invasions to prove our modern world’s incompatible mixes of population, we might as well call it quits as humanity goes.

    I wouldn't say call it quits, I would say be realistic and consider basic human nature, rather than thinking we can socially engineer that out. That only goes so far. OK I'm a pale Irishman. At Dracula's book of the month club meeting I'd be still one of the palest feckers in the room. Imagine I move to America tomorrow, get a job, gaff, live my life as a migrating non born and bred Yank. Who is more likely to be stopped by the police, arrested, gaoled, get shot, assaulted, get an interview and job, get a loan etc? Me or a born and bred African American whose family, culture and ties goes back centuries in the country? Hell, who's more likely to get the nod in an interview with the same qualifications here in Ireland? Me or a Nigerian?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Romans and Greeks etc imported slaves labour as when their society developed a labour shortage resulted. Ancient cultures dealt with it through importing slaves. Modern culture imports paid labour. What do those Greek and Romans slaves become though? Modern Greeks and Italians

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Yes, I get your drift, but if you shack up and beget kids with an African American woman, and the cycle of continues, you may still bravely go on as deathly white, but, but… your offspring…

    So the solution to that is there has to be segregation to avoid the misfortunes of mixitudinousness?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    It’s important to note that the African continent, including swaths of Northern Africa that had been part of the Roman empire, began to be "explored" in the nineteenth century. The trade in slavery, commencing in earnest in the 17th C, was done by aggregating subjugated in coastal towns by Africans, and therefore, limited the potential knowledge of Native cultures by the Western traders. The exercise was not a cultural one, and conquest disguised as cultural enlightenment is not either, it is a commercial matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Oh right, So the current levels of non European immigration to Europe were, in fact, the norm, up until the 17th Century and then they stopped?

    Interesting, provide some more detail



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I'm not even at the arguing point yet, We've been to go on a linguistic adventure to establish that "Europeans are being replaced by non Europeans in some Europeans countries" is a statement of fact. Most sensible people wouldnt have bothered to contest it, realising that its a sticky wicket but this is Boards so no suprise.

    You can feel free to have a go to. Then we can move onto whether this is a good thing, bad thing or indifferent thing.



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