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Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    You are arguing in the extreme. Nobody is asking you to produce a calf that may make 300 euros , and cause any cow any undue bother .

    Just stop producing a calf that is worthless or almost worthless .

    The narrative about cost apportioned to cow / calf unit and cost reduction is not understandable by the person that matters the most - the person taking the milk off the shelf .



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    The value of the calf is totally dependent on supply and the market at the time. Had black and white calves of fleckxfr 700 kgs cows make less than 70 euro, because bandon in March is flush with calves. Add in boats not going for whatever reason and aa/ he etc all make poor money when numbers are up.

    At the end of the day for a return beef has to be got put of the country as once the factories hit their numbers the cut away to fcuk



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ginger22


    We have never used Jersey bulls here, Always big Holstein and Brown Swiss, Keep all calves for at least 4 weeks, well fed in good environment yet they have all been sold at a loss this Spring when taking account of milk drank, bedding, labour. As regards animal welfare all calves are well treated, We even use all polled bulls so no need to dehorn. Your argument about the consumer is irrevelant because the noisy animal welfare crowd will not drink milk regardless of how calves are treated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,826 ✭✭✭straight


    Same here. Gave away great calves for a pittance in the peak. Sold one the other day at 15 days for 250 euro. It's gas that lads can't make money out of a calf at 20 euro but they're mad for an inferior calf now and can pay over 10 times the price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Yes i agree I’ve given the extremes of the argument and I’m sure there’s a happy medium in there but you can now see what my point was. It’s then up to every dairy farmer to decide for themselves where they want to be on that scale.

    You point about the person taking the milk off the shelf is completely irrelevant to anything being discussed on this thread. The consumer doesn’t know what farm the milk came from or how much that farm got for their calves, and 99% wouldn’t even want to know if you were to tell them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,826 ✭✭✭straight


    The milk they are taking off the shelf is cheaper than bottled water. Maybe that's part of the problem.

    The calves are not worthless but the buyers are able to manipulate the market when they are over supplied for a couple of weeks in the year.

    The argument about milk can make up for the loss is like telling a beef farmer that his job will make up for their lack of profitability.

    Calves were a good revenue stream for dairy farmers. Now they are not. If i had more land I'd keep alot more of mine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭DBK1


    I’m afraid you’ll find for an awful lot of beef farmers that is the case, their sfp and off farm job is making up for the lack of profitability.

    It goes to show how easy it is for the dairy man to make money when he doesn’t even realise them things are happening to his beef neighbour!!

    I definitely agree about the milk to bottled water comparison too, it’s crazy really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    Yeah fair enough about milk price on the shelves but beef is a bigger loss leader for supermarkets.

    'The calves are not worthless but the buyers are able to manipulate the market when they are over supplied for a couple of weeks in the year.' This is simple supply and demand not witchcraft. What are buyers supposed to do, buy a way more calves than they need or can handle just because they all come on the market together? You decided to calve all your cows within a 6 week period in early spring same as 90% of dairy farms now - fair enough as it makes best use of grass and is fair more profitable than any other time of the year, but you have sacrificed the calf value with this decision. If you think there's more money to be made rearing dairy calves than producing milk maybe you should change enterprises - you would be the first! The calf you sold the other day for 250 was a bad buy but some lads just in it for a hobby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,826 ✭✭✭straight


    I know that's what's happening. My point is that telling someone that their lack of profitability can be just made up somewhere else is bollocks.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,826 ✭✭✭straight


    No interest here in pitting farmer against farmer. We're all working hard for the crumbs.

    My brother was bidding for calves in the mart this spring. The buyers at the ring turned around to him and called him a xxxxing eejit. They said that man selling the calf doesn't care if he makes 5 euro or 500. He has the money in the milk tank. That's what you call Manipulating the market. Plenty of these guys source them calves for farmers and take a nice cut out of it for themselves.

    The industry makes plenty money off all our backs and protect their own margins at our cost. It's great to see their raw material becoming scarce and at least the farmers might have their day yet. Here's to all farmers making a nice profit for their work.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭DBK1


    It is bollocks alright when you’re talking about supplementing with off farm income alright but it’s not bollocks when talking about a dairy cow and calf as the small calf is leading to more profit from the cow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Milk won’t always be 50 cent .and shur fook the beef man so just give him our scraps ….no wonder there’s such contempt for dairy farmers ….we need to put as much effort into breeding quality beef and male dairy ainmals as we do into our own breeding stock ..lots of lads should be left with there calves to rear going on some of the attitudes shown



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I have 2 purebred limousin cows here and their calving figure (for cows) is about 2.8%. They are big animals. With the way breeding is going, there is no need for dairy farmers to be producing poor quality calves.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Again, I am genuinely at a loss to understand how someone can describe the consumer as irrelevant. The animal welfare lobby is small . It is the ordinary consumer like me that matters. The arrogance shown on here is beyond bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    That kind of reasonable ideology won’t get you anywhere on here. Much better to produce a small calf , half feed it and then throw it into the mart at two days old if you can get away with it .



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,826 ✭✭✭straight


    Sure if the consumer doesn't want milk then do without it. Drink oat juice. I'm fine with selling up the cows and putting the feet up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Nobody said that the consumer doesn’t want milk but would it be too much to ask that it be produced without engineering cruelty into it ? The consumer doesn’t have to be an Einstein to be aware of the issues surrounding worthless horses, dogs etc without having worthless calves as well .



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    It must be really galling to see people making a go of it with these so called worthless calves. Shows what's achievable when you drop some ego and get on with it. Step 1: stop calling them worthless. This level of bitterness towards your neighbour dairy farmer isn't healthy. It's fairly disturbing actually.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,826 ✭✭✭straight


    Phuck you and your cruelty. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. My animals are like family to me. I'm here now talking to Caroline, one of my favourite cows who hurt her leg going to dairy a few days ago. I'm lifting her 3 times a day with the loader, talking to her and milking her by hand. I'll be checking on her before bed and first thing in the morning. My calves get the best of care as is the case on 99% of farms. I have 2 5 star stock bulls to provide good beef calves.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,199 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    How do you manage to get them into the marts at 2 days old



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  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Settle down . I wasn’t accusing you personally nor any other dairy farmer of any cruelty .

    I know what it is like to try to do your best for animals .



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    In fairness some dairy cross bull calves are worthless and that is why up on 29k of them were slaughtered to date in DAFM approved facilities as they wouldn't get a bid in a mart. TBH I don't have a problem with it (although I understand that is abhorrent to others) the same way as I don't have a problem with worthless male chickens been euthanised/gassed as day old chicks - I still continue to eat chicken. However I do not agree with on farm culling of day old unwanted/worthless JE/JEx/Kiwi bull calves and that sort of carry on needs to stop.

    I'm reliably informed that the slaughtered Irish calf carcasses are quartered, boxed, frozen and exported to other Countries for human consumption.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Here we go again with the crap from the entitled thankless crowd. You should be glad that farmers are willing to work all hours of the day and night to provide food at a reasonable price to the citizens of the world. I dont know what your line of business is but I dont go around telling you how to run it. What gives you the right to dictate how I should run mine. I can assure you that I take good care of all my livestock. Perhaps with the looming shortage of food brought on by the war in Ukraine people like you will wake up and appreciate that you have never gone a day hungry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Wow !

    I have commented on this thread on the subject of newborn calves being bred and killed shortly after birth . I am not accusing you or any other poster of neglect or cruelty . The fact remains that at least 30k calves have already been killed in the last four months . That is an issue that all dairy farmers and their organisations need to address.

    I am a part time farmer in the West who has been involved with cattle since I was six years old , which is over fifty years ago . If you bothered to read some of my other posts on here you would know that .



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,199 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Right .less individual stuff and more general discussion.winning an argument on here doesn't really amount to a whole lot in general scheme of life



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,578 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Even NZ is bringing more calf welfare rules

    https://thatsfarming.com/farming-news/calf-feeding-nz/

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Interesting point from Bill O’Keeffe in the Journal this week re the carbon cost of worthless calves. He suggested the carbon cost of the cow could be diluted if the calf was a decent beef animal and carried thru to slaughter (by dairy or beef farmer).

    If the calf is slaughtered at birth, the cow must carry all the carbon or GHG costs.

    Maybe carbon counting at farm level will be the initiative that stops lads producing worthless calves?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,543 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    What does he do with his bull calves?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭carrollsno1


    Hed have some of the best calves around here and he'll charge you plenty for the luxury of rearing his calves. Any British Friesan bull calves with the right figures are kept for bulls while the sub standard ones are sold to local farmers ex farm i wouldnt imagine he needs to go to the mart at all with them and he does use beef bulls in AI and sweepers too.

    Better living everyone



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  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    British friesan herd, not much waste there I'd say to be fair to him. Cows doing in around the 500kg Ms I'd say from bits I've read..no bother selling calves and I wouldn't say any are leaving the yard sub 100 euro..better bulls reared for stock bulls, with no shortage of customers. And a good cull cow to sell.

    Teagasc could pay attention it's up on a 500 cow herd now I'd say, with plenty of walking and still no need for jerseys.



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