Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Welfare recipients can become landlords soon

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    He wouldn't be entitled to anything if he has an income before hand , families get cut off or reduced payments if they go €5 over income level , but if you rent a room you can earn €14,000 and keep all of the welfare .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    He has been entitled to this very same scheme for years if he was working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    Is the point not that people who received social housing can now benefit from this while people who can't afford property and have earnings too high for social housing have no property to use to avail of it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,095 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    The point of it is that it allows for a certain amount of spare domestic accommodation capacity to be used by those who need it, while not penalising those who can supply it. It's not intended to fix the housing crisis, it's not intended to make social welfare recipients rich. It's tapping a source for a few extra bedrooms to become available for house shares that previously did not exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    So they get a market rate of rent tax free on a property that they didnt pay a market price for?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You jumped on a thread started by Kermit and took it at face value. Big mistake there.

    Anto's and Deco's across the land aren't going to benefit from this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,011 ✭✭✭bmc58


    Well I'm one of those people you described but there's no way myself and my wife would have a lodger in our home now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I think there may be some merit in it if it increases the number of properties available to rent! which has to be a good thing.

    it would seem like it could reduce the potential hassle to someone renting out! and add stock to the rental market which would not otherwise come on stream. Maybe it is an idea that if you are availing of this non-taxable initiative, the rent is controlled?

    It may also be a case for older people who may be in care or being cared for, with relatives, but are keeping their house/apmt in case they need it for the fair deal, to encourage them to allow their property to be rented out.

    There may also be incidents where a person on s/w moves in with an elderly or sick relative as their carer, and could possibly rent out their own property, it may make this easier for them.

    I don't like the tone used referring to social welfare recipients! I think I would prefer someone who is entitled to social welfare getting income from rent rather than some vulture fund or big landlord!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    We're talking about people who are not working being allowed to earn 14,000 + while cutting off supports for those who are working but earn €5 over a set figure



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Confused11811


    With respect Gatling it's is a half arsed government announcement today, and your getting worked up about it. It infact changes where little for the majority of people on a welfare payment who can rent out their houses The majority of those welfare recipients who can rent a room will be pensioners on the defined contribution pension. Even before today the could rent a room without concern as tier pension was never affected. I'm a contributionary pensioner (widower) and a home owner I could already rent a room tax free. I knew that already , however a lot of other pensioners wouldn't know that and now it's been pointed out to them they can now look at an extra source of income.

    Regarding non contributionary welfare payments those on allowances very few would own a house, most will be be in council houses, on RAS and HAP. The local council administer the rates of rent charge here or in the case of HAP and RAS how much the tentant pays to the overall cost of rent. What the government needs to do is clarify how exactly the rent received from the rent a room scheme will be treated by the council in the calculation of rent the main tentant of the property. At the moment that rent will treated as income for the main tentant. On top of that the income of the entire household including the rent a room licensees will be included in a rent review. It's a complex system called "differential rents". The council rent increase could negate any extra income from a licensee for the main tentant. As things stand it's not the cash cow you might think it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48 porkmaster


    Desperate times call for desperate measures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Confused11811 where little for the majority of people on a welfare payment who can rent out their houses The majority of those welfare recipients who can rent a room will be pensioners on the defined contribution pension.


    It's open to all not just retired pensioners



  • Registered Users Posts: 48 porkmaster


    It'll balance out when landlords become welfare recipients too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Confused11811


    @Gatling Most welfare recipients aren't going to in a position to rent a room in a house. Most either don't own one , are licensees themselves. Of those who do have a house rented they'll either have it rented from a private landlord in that case most landlords will have contracts that forbid subletting or they're renting from the Council or AHB. Those with rented houses be it HAP, RAS, AHB or council are more than likely going to have young kids and families so there won't to a spare room to rent.

    You're making a mountain out of a molehill

    Post edited by Confused11811 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 bobbygoldstar


    Am i right in saying that this scheme is open to homeowners who are in receipt of social welfare payments and not tenants on social welfare who are either renting a house/apartment from a private landlord or the council.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Like Pensioners, Carers, People with children, etc? Bit harsh, 😕



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    I love the way people who criticise welfare recipients forget that there way a ****-load more welfare schemes than jobseekers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    Do not mix the inhabitants, keep them strictly segregated... we don't want to resort to social apartheid

    Brilliant, so the solution is what, magic? Segregate but don't segregate? Genius!



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    😂

    Im a welfare recipient. I receive carers allowance of 219 per week. It is a taxable means tested payment. I started off on carers benefit as I had to give up my job to take on this new “job”. My “job” will cease when the person I care for dies (or if I die before that, who knows). I am not entitled to claim fuel allowance as I do not reside with the person I care for.

    I would hazard a guess that a good percentage of carers are homeowners. I own my own home and was only able to do so by being in full time employment.

    In the current economic climate I would say that a very small minority of homeowners would be on Jobseeker’s Allowance as they have a mortgage to pay. They might be between jobs and get JB, but couldn’t see them staying unemployed for long.

    So, who are the candidates that can avail of this scheme?

    1. Pensioners
    2. Carers
    3. Disabled
    4. Long term unemployed

    That’s who they are giving out about without thinking. Bundling them all in together!



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    i have a question.

    If you can avail of up to 14k tax free if you have taxable income, can you also use the tax free part if on a social welfare allowance?

    eg: I have 11,388 per annum carers allowance. I’m never paying tax on solely that income when tax credits are used. If I add in 14,000. Will I be taxed on the 25,388 or do I still have the tax free benefit?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    Yes. Your carers allowance is actually taxable income, it's just below the limits where tax is applied. if you were to earn 14K in room rental, your taxable income would still only be the 11,388 of your carers allowance, as the up to 14k room rental income can be considered non-taxable. However bear in mind if you go over the 14k by even 1 euro then the total amount becomes taxable - 11,388 + 14,001 = 25,389 as taxable income.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cheers. I wasn’t sure. I won’t be renting a room out but was just wondering.

    Could well suit somebody who is tied up all day every day looking after someone else for a pittance so had no way of earning extra income. Or a disabled person who can’t earn either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You seem to misunderstand the social welfare system. A number of the payments on the system are actually taxed.

    Rental property in this country is rarely if ever assessed. How on earth do you propose assessing every single room thats rented in a shared house in this country?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    This is absurd. In the middle of a housing crisis you actually want to ban all property share rentals in the country.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No. This is nothing to do with people in social housing. Its a small cohort of people who own their own home and receive a SW payment

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,785 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    The rent a room scheme means if the rent is under 14k its not taxed, most of the people who use this will be maybe people over 65 , they are just trying to increase the no of rental units on the market. The house owner will still need to send a form to the tax office declaring rental income . I see no problem here, it ll maybe be a few 100 people that use the scheme that are on welfare payments. We need every rental unit that we can get in the market. Single mothers on welfare are already allowed to earn extra income up to a certain amount per week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I think you can only use this scheme if you own your own house , I don't see what this has to do with couples . And of course you will need at least one spare bedroom to rent out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭Corben Dallas



    Yes we should build up, but not so we have a situation that causes social problems like Ballymun flats etc. High rise should also mean high quality, and size spec etc. written into law via building regulations. Min size per person occupying, utility rooms. basically no shoeboxes allowed.

    Re the three categories of 30 story Blocks >Full time working in the vicinity, Lower income with state supports and the third with social welfare recipients only. Kept separate, good security for residents no mixing. Plus any anti social residents or families removed/put back on housing list if they view anti-social as a life choice.

    It would be an interesting social experiment.

    --------------------

    Also its totally wrong that benefit lifers should get even more benefit top ups (>via renting out their free house) when the PAYE cohorts get practically no tax breaks/ allowances if they were to do the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭busy bee 33


    DB drivers should be starting on €52,000 per annum



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    There is no mention of this only being available to homeowners .



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Well you're hardly going to be able to do it in a house that isn't yours?

    It's for people who can rent a room in "their own home."

    Clear as day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its "in their own home" - This is only for homeowners

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    This would be ideal in a snobs World. In reality, won't happen. FWIW, I'm a PAYE, and self employed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    There is no such thing as a free house! Prove me wrong, state here where I would get a guaranteed free house? You can't. It's all waffle from bitter individuals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    assumptions

    1 - that these are all unemployed lazy spongers.

    2 - That they will get 14k a year - That's laughable


    Finally the government actually does something that will add lower price rental to the market in towns and cities all over the country.

    The money goes to people on low income - everything from jobseekers, disabilty allowance and pensioners

    But where there is a big win is that the money will most likely be spent and spent locally. That adds to vat, adds to local jobs, which in turn adds to tax. Circular economy.


    But too many people just can't understand the concept. The probably prefer the giant landlords that only circulate money to their international well-off shareholders


    Funny how sinn fein have been so silent on it and will probably remain silent. they never comment when a negative angle can't be found



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭jj880


    If you want to look at it that way that's up to you but just so we are clear those are your assumptions.

    I was pointing out 1 scenario based on ridiculous government policy that ignores the root cause of the housing crisis. The government's refusal to ban REITs, their refusal to build any housing and as an offshoot of that councils are buying up property making things even worse. The money is there as we can see from the pathetic developer handout now being touted for apartments. Instead we get this nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Social housing tenants are not currently allowed rent out a room.

    That is not being changed under this scheme.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    Exactly there's only mention of there being a change to the means test criteria to disregard 14k or room rental income.

    One would need to have an agenda to decide that that mean that people in council houses can suddenly sub-let, or any one who previously was not allowed to rent now can.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    "in your own home".

    You can't claim to have a home that isn't yours!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There is no proof this scheme will be for social housing because it wont so the scaremongering is a joke.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    You can actually. "Home" is the place where you live.

    Whether you own it or not is irrelevant. This is very well established in law.

    Post edited by seamus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And yet no one has proved it won't be ,

    It's hardly scaremongering



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    Bizarre attitude, you make a claim and then everyone has to prove you wrong? That's not how this works.

    The simple fact is this is a change to the rule of means-tested SW payments. It doesn't change rules on who can or cannot rent a room.

    It's unreasonable for you to insist that because it does not mention not changing other rules, then those rules might have been changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its not allowed. This scheme is entirely separate.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Its not bizarre it's a simple discussion this is how a forum works ,

    And yes there has been discussions around empty rooms in social housing ,

    Like the claim made earlier ohhh it's Scaremongering , don't think people actually understand the meaning of the word .

    COVID-19 is going to kill us all ,or the Russian navy is preparing to invade Ireland tomorrow , prepare for the worse that's scaremongering to a degree .

    Why people have this notion of sjw echo chambers is beyond me



  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    Whole lot of words to avoid admitting your position is groundless.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement