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Karen Harrington jailed for life for the murder of Santina Cawley

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,826 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    i don't be tending to be leaving my kids with a drunk while I wander the streets at 3am on a Thursday night after a bender, I suppose that's a bit judgy



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    If you are referring to this case, specifically, it's clear that you haven't read about any of the circumstances that night

    Or, if you have....well......



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    I have but obviously they didnt know what was going to happen people go out for a few all the time in the park or whatever and it doesnt end up like this people have arguments and do stupid things but it doesnt result in a childs death how could they know what was going to happen how does blaming them for it help anyone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This is nothing but the "shi1t happens" attitude.....the nobody taking responsibility for situations.

    In this case the worst possible outcome arose, however, even if this did not happen, it's still the thought of allowing a small child to be immersed in such a toxic and volatile environment; placing a small child in a situation/environment that was that toxic and volatile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No different than reckless parents who allow young small children (without proper road sense) out to play unsupervised and a terrible accident happens, such as the child is knocked down and killed. Who's to blame? It's not the child, and not the car/motorist. It is the parents, who are supposed to be caring for their children. And I see this kind of recklessness a lot.

    btw, just to be clear. That vile thing ended the child's life. I know this.

    And I am only comparing this based off the responsibility aspect of it.

    Sorry for going off topic



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Immortal Starlight


    That disgusting vile evil yoke should never ever again see the light of day. There is absolutely no way she could ever be forgiven for what she did. May baby Santina Rest In Peace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I don't even know where to start with this, you wouldn't ever blame a driver for killing a child?



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You too seem to be missing the point of parental responsibility....

    Reckless actions/decisions made by parents that result in tragedy...

    Example is this case. Example is leaving child alone with a dog unsupervised. Small child alone in a bath....endless examples

    And the one I mentioned. Allowing small children out to play (no road sense) and unsupervised....

    Yes, the car kills them, but it's the actions/decisions of the parents that allowed the situation arise.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    You think it’s perfectly acceptable to drag a baby around in a buggy on the sesh for hours and hours?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Let me get this straight so that we fully understand each other. You find it perfectly acceptable parenting on Mr Cawley behalf that at 10pm Santina was not tucked on u in bed asleep having been brought home given her tea bathed and read a story, like all normal 2 year olds.

    1. Instead at 10pm she was in Aldi buying drink with her father with a view to going drinking in the open air with people who had been drinking for hours with the intention of going back to a flat to a flat to continue drinking. This to you is perfectly fine. Admirable almost
    2. Then, in the early hours of the morning, still not safely in bed, her father had a roaring drunken row with his girlfriend calling her a whore and a prostitute in front of the child who must have been terrified. Perfectly acceptable?
    3. Then he told the girlfriend to take Santina because he was going out and she refused. Despite her being very drunk, despite her refusing to take the child, despite them having had a violent row, despite there being no emergency, despite the lateness of the hour, he left her anyway. Perfectly acceptable?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Good that’s great I’m glad we agree. Appalling outrageous parenting on behalf of Mr Cauley which simply cannot be defended by any decent person.



  • Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭starbaby2003


    What ??! If you knock someone down especially a child of course you are responsible. There is absolutely no correlation between a parent leaving a child out to play and bringing a kid on a drugs and drink binge. Get a grip.



  • Registered Users Posts: 86,701 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    It sounds like daddy and his killer partner were on a drink and drugs binge with a precious 2 year old all day and night, that is not good parenting, anyone around them should have taken the child, called the Gardai, some people should not have kids, be allowed keep kids



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am not comparing. I am making a point about reckless parenting decisions.

    Example: allowing young children with no road sense out to play unsupervised is reckless. You know, when you see small children with no road sense out playing on streets/estates where cars are and there is no parental supervision..

    unless you’re claiming that there is nothing wrong with that?

    and I am not talking about older children who do have road sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,531 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    He hardly has custody of the other children does he?



  • Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭starbaby2003


    You literally said “no different than”



  • Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭starbaby2003




  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Read what I said..

    the “responsibility” aspect of it…I clearly said this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,531 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    The Gardai were called though.

    They would be apprehensive about getting involved in removing a child from that background.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Just on the thing that murdered Santina. I saw an article today showing it out/free, titled “her last hours freedom before sentencing.” How in god’s name was this thing not in custody during all this?

    Horrific to think after being accused of such a depraved offence, a court didn’t remand in custody

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    I find it disgusting tbh, him selling his story and his photos posing by that poor innocent child's grave, on Father's Day and whatever else, to the tabloids.

    Shame he did not take responsibility and care for and protect his little girl in her short life. Instead of profiting, after he placed her in harm's way with her murderer.

    I hope and pray that the poor little creature was rendered unconscious very quickly, in her final hours.

    I feel for all of those who attended the horrific scene that morning, and for the hospital staff too.

    Poor little Santina, may she rest in peace.

    Post edited by HildaOgdenx on


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    I completely get what you are saying. I remember thinking that, I may have even asked the question on boards, at the time of the trial of the murderers of Ana Kriegel. Another horrific case.

    I think someone put it well at that time to me - if nobody would defend them, then no trial could take place and justice wouldn't be served.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Brendan Grehan defended her. This man is far from hard up, or in need. He told the jury that there was doubt and they should acquit. They voted unanimously guilty. Overwhelming evidence she did it. And he urging for acquittal.

    I just don’t buy the justice element. Like I said, I’d go to prison before working certain cases like this trying to get vile scum off.

    Anyway, it’s always been a thought of mine. What makes/compels any human being to work to try get acquittals in such clear cut definitive cases, where appalling depravity exists.

    but if it is true that no defender means no trial and no conviction, then maybe these defenders take the case out of this type of concern…



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    My understanding is that the gardai were called by the neighbour who heard the commotion from the murderer's flat. All was quiet when they got there as Santina was dead and the murderer was presumably out of it/ unconscious. They could not gain entry to the flat at that time, as a result.

    They were called again shortly afterwards when the father got back from walking around the city, and discovered the poor child.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    but if it is true that no defender means no trial and no conviction, then maybe these defenders take the case out of this type of concern…

    I don't know how the cases are assigned. I don't believe it's done out of concern, or that they need the money.

    Perhaps I phrased it badly, if that is the inference you took from what I posted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Paschal Sheehy trying to make sense out of the trial here. There seems to have been so much unsaid about the additional circumstances during that night that are generally known to have occurred.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,387 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Strange defense strategy…that type of testimony was sure not to get her any sympathies with the jury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 86,701 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    The child's safety should be their priority, how many are used protecting government ministers and their families



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  • Registered Users Posts: 56,130 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Something that has bothered me. I wonder how much detail and information they had by the time they got there. They do have immediate power to act should they believe someone in danger, and this heightened when a small child is affected. I’d say it haunts them.

    I guess we’d need to know the inner details of the call/report to the gardai.

    I am thinking surely the report mentioned the chaos, the drinking etc. Is it acceptable for the gardai to say we couldn’t get an answer to the door? Sure of course they couldn’t. The killer didn’t want to answer…



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