Sweden avoiding lockdown

Ireland had no excess deaths because they had minimal numbers of vulnerable

But they still had similar excess death levels to Sweden early days

Basic right ? Lying to people about herd immunity ? Refusing to get elderly even seen by a doctor or tested and treated for Covid?

Go away out of that , Fintan .

Yes ...early days because they did the wrong thing with nursing's homes and masks and PPE in healthcare...but at least we learned from those mistakes . That is the point . Tegnell persisted with the lie until regional governments and health institutions took it into their own hands to impose measures .

And you complain about NPHET ?

No discrepancy whatsoever in the Swedish Coronavirus Report. They were not impressed with Sweden`s light touch herd immunity strategy or their face mask policy. Both of which they made very clear in their final report, so what you think I should take up with the Commission I have no idea. Why if I was I would do so through a Swedish newspaper, even less.

I have no need to look in a mirror. My posts have all been factual, and nothing to do with opinions, which actually are by nature biased. You should try it sometime.

I see we have now moved from medical ethics being plural to morality values are plural. Best of luck with that insight, but I would be slow to share it with anyone who lost loved ones in Swedish care homes where doctors refused to attend and were giving authorisation for end of life medication down the phone rather than treatment for the sake of your own health if I was you. In fact probably best not to mention it to anyone whose lost love ones were among the thousands that died needlessly due to the unethical strategy.

To be fair, you aren't coming across as very well informed, an example would be posting the article from February rather than the articles that were written during the Winter months, something you didn't acknowledge because it went against your opinion, or completely ignoring the economic data.

But they did, as you were shown, they didn't go back to full lockdown, as that was unneeded post vaccination, as Ireland did as well with most retail and restaurants remaining open, albeit at reduced hours (unless you were unvaccinated).

I'll take it at face value that you're genuinely interested, but there is a 4-6 week lag (sometimes longer) from case increases to deaths, the lag has got longer as new and more effective treatments have been used. Most of the deaths in these cases would be from Delta, whereas Omicron became prevalent and had a lower CFR thus the need not to lockdown (as was shown by the drop off in deaths afterwards).

Worldwide we do not all share the same culture. Geographical proximity, a shared history and language are three elements that shape a countries culture and for the Nordic Nations you would be hard pressed to find a group of countries with so much of those three elements in common. In language historically the peoples of the Nordic Nations were able to understand each other, and even today find it much easier than understanding what a German or Dutchman is saying. Danes, Norwegians and Swedes can read and speak each others languages without great difficulty. Those three elements of commonality alone make a nonsense of attempts to compare Sweden with China, or jumping all over the world attempting to compare Sweden with any other country on lockdown, when the like for like comparisons are on Sweden`s own doorstep.

Another interesting similarity between Scandinavian countries is the Law of Jante, or the Jantelovenn`s social code. It is an underlying Scandinavian philosophy principle that applies across Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland and how that was used by Sweden`s authorities for their herd immunity strategy while the others used it differently.

I actually was thinking about euthanasia and Swedish doctors refusing to visit care home to assess patients but instead sanctioning euthanasia down the phone, but not in relation to the E.U. My thoughts went back to long before the E.U. to the number of Swedish place-names associated with the Swedish word Attestupa and Sweden cultural heritage.

I have put no words in your, or anybody else`s mouths. I have posted verifiable facts on data, statistics, e-mails and the results of the finding of Sweden`s own Coronavirus Commission, none of which you have had any credible rebuttal too, so no, you did not come here to learn or debate. You came here attempting to defend a strategy that has by any metric shown to have been a failure and are now attempting to drag the conversation off on a philosophical tangent hoping to somehow negate that.

Not surprised that you feel you have learned very little here if you are still talking about a cost benefit analysis comparing Ireland to Sweden. The only quantifiable cost benefit analysis between both is in Covid deaths and economies, and Sweden comes out second best on both.

Nope. You are now only off on a philosophical tangent because it is unquantifiable in comparison to all the data, statistics, e-mails and the findings of Swedens own Coronavirus Commission report. It`s nothing more than an attempt to move the discussion from the verifiable facts to down a meandering rabbit warren. But even on a philosophical level your arguement does not stand up when you considered the Janteloven social code common to all Scandinavian countries.

THe simplest facts you seem unable or unwilling to grasp is that, even if we believed Sweden`s strategy was not herd immunity as well ignoring the threat of prosecution for not sending children with symptoms to school, and was just based on voluntary measures, then with their excess deaths compared to their neighbours it failed.

You are also ignoring that in relation to Ireland how our easing of restrictions for Christmas 2020 resulted in a huge spike in our number afterwards which just shows how well we do with voluntary measures for a pandemic.

It certainly is . And should be taken with respect , but in context .

If you are comparing over the two years up to Dec 21 the Lancet is the go to ..includes a year of restrictions by Sweden .

If you are comparing their not locking down with the lockdowns in neighbouring countries , the WHO has data specifically for that time , 2020, so is accurate for that .

And seeing as that is the entire premise of the thread astronomer, anything else is just ...flannel , as I accused you of a few days ago ..

And here you are , still ...flannel ing 😁

We know what the excess deaths for each of the four Nordic nations are for 2020, the year that like for like comparisons can be made on the two different strategies as Sweden, like everywhere else, began putting their faith in vaccines early 2021.

So.... according to those estimated figures you posted, then from all those estimated figures to be correct on the numbers that died due to Covid, why are the actual excess deaths not higher, particularly for Denmark and Finland ?

There is only one way that would be a possibility, and that is that all other causes of death were correspondingly lower. Now unless there was something about lockdown in both Denmark and Finland that resulted in that, (and which mysteriously didn`t translate to Norway or anywhere else for that matter), I can see no other explanation.

It`s just more of you scrambling around, still trying to justify Sweden`s strategy and wasting not just your own time, but mine and others as well.