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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Oh yes, democracy has taken a battering in recent years - massively driven by state-sponsored (gee, I wonder by who) online disinformation campaigns seeking to divide us. Brexit and Trump being the two most obvious 'successes'.

    I'm hopeful though. I think one of the few positive things to come out of this war is that unchecked, malevolent online BS is now being called out far more than it ever was and the gatekeepers of the internet are being put under pressure to actually be somewhat responsible in what their algorithims allow in front of our eyeballs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Some of the stuff that was produced in the Soviet era is eye-popping, not necessarily always in the good way! I think Channel 4 used to show the odd one back in the day and I do remember sitting on my sofa in absolute befuddlement looking at these 'masterpieces' of Soviet realism. A bit different to Die Hard and Police Academy. 😏

    Although Battleship Potemkin should be watched once by everyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,879 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Their army is the same. When they do manage to advance, it's usually at a contemplative pace where they can ruminate over the futility of it all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,708 ✭✭✭✭briany




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Must have been fun trying to keep up with the airbrushing of Soviet films in the 1930s.

    "Wasn't Comrade Trotsky in this before? I'm sure I remember a scene with him giving a speech to the Red Army troops. Very patriotic, very good!"

    "Ssssshhh Igor, are you trying to get us killed? We'll be sent to the gulags!"

    "OK, no more about Trotsky. At least the scene with Kamenev is something to look forward to."

    "ehhh, I don't know how to tell you this but..."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,928 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I will say this: if the world would be to lose Russia altogether the world will surely miss the russian culture, but indeed it will be a better place nevertheless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I'm sure people were saying the same about Germany (which committed far worse crimes on a far larger scale) in 1945.

    So maybe, 'if we lost the current horrible Russian regime' would be better phrasing. We'll still have to live with Russia long after Putin is gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭rogber


    I like those Tarkovsky films you mentioned and yes I agree they're very "meditative" and not the kind of thing that'll be on show in multiplexes around the world. Not that that says anything about quality.

    The later Zvyagintsev films however, especially Leviathan, are quite pacy and a bit more mainstream in style. Quite different to The Return and a really brutal critique of Putin's Russia and top to bottom corruption. Needless to say, culture ministry attacked him for it after being stupid enough to fund the film without checking what it was about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,708 ✭✭✭✭briany


    As angry as the atrocities of the Russian military in Ukraine will make us, it's best to always try not to conflate said atrocities with the country's people in general. If nothing else, then for strategic reasons - demonising all Russians only gives Putin a handy propaganda tool to amplify hatred and keep their war effort going. It's important to light fires at the foundations of what Putin is trying to achieve, and one case of that is surely the hearts and minds of the Russian people at large. I must hold out the hope that the Russian people in general would not do harm unless to defend themselves and would be equally horrified as we are, if unavoidably confronted with what is happening in Ukraine.




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,499 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The Russian soldier who was charged with a killing a civilian has been found guilty by a court in Ukraine and sentenced to life imprisonment. Interestingly, this has been widely reported in the Russian press. Strikes me that this is extremely awkward for the Russian public. No matter what way the Kremlin spin this, stories of soldiers murdering Ukrainian civilians is not something they are supposed to be hearing about. The fact that he is only a a young lad and looks like a Leaving Cert student doesn't help either (conjuring up images of the young of Russia being used by the regime as cannon fodder).




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Totalitarian states only understands one language,and thats Power



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Widely reported, but how?

    "Sham trial created with falsified evidence, in order to poison attitudes against Russian operations."



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    It is a huge statement from Biden. Its out there now for it to sink in for China. We'll they now know that they will have to take on the Americans and possibly Japan, India and Australia if they invade Taiwan. Will be interesting now what way China goes now in regards to this. Will they still do so which I believe they will eventually but they will really need to ramp up their military even more. Will they now help out Russia even more as now they know they might need their help when this confrontation happens with America which I think is more when it will happen. The only true way I think China won't invade Taiwan and I don't know why America just doesn't nip it in bud is just ask Taiwan can they station say a division of marines on the island. Least if that's done I can't see China invading Taiwan then. No point giving China the chance and a war will break out least if that's done it would give China the biggest question to ask, do we invade Taiwan even with thousands of U. S. troops and equipment on the island. No way an invasion would succeed or be at even even greater cost to China.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,928 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No, what we shouldn't do is worry about what will Putin say, or do. He has widespread support as a president and for the war both in Russia and abroad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭rogber


    I'm curious how they'll spin this. Wouldn't surprise me if they say it's Ukrainian lies and propaganda and that in response all the soldiers who surrendered in Mariupol get the same sentence. I hope not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,499 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Absolutely, some of the press are just reporting the whole thing factually ('a 21 year old Russian soldier has been found guilty of murder in a Ukrainian court' and giving the basic details) but no doubt the Kremlin fruit loop propagandists on the nightly TV shows will spin it as "fake news" and so on. But it's a subject that the propagandists would 'much' rather not prefer being aired in their media at all - stories of young Russian soldiers being ordered by their commanders to kill helpless Ukrainian civilians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭rogber


    Well said. We don't ban Beethoven because of the Nazis, or Shakespeare because of the Black and Tans, or Seamus Heaney because of the IRA. Demonisation of entire groups based on behaviour of the worst members only ever fuels more violence and misery, even if at times like this the temptation is understandable



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,879 ✭✭✭✭josip


    China must be so pissed off with Putin right now. Before Putin's disastrous invasion, China only had an ambiguous US that had recently withdrawn demoralised from Afghanistan to consider when deciding upon an invasion of Taiwan.

    Now they've gotten a US that has reconfirmed over the past 3 months that it is the only global superpower and is no longer ambiguous in its defence of Taiwan. Pooh may very well focus his expansionist nationalism northwards to get his revenge on Putin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Field east


    A LOT has happened since UKR made that statement re interest or not in applying for NATO membership. So that was then and THIS IS NOW. It would not surprise me if ALL BETS are off now. Remember Burcha for starters



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Definitely i say they wish putin had of waited a few years and when they were ready invaded Taiwan same time Russia invaded Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Field east


    if Putin would have no problem. In accepting Ukr joining NATO once he gets a slice of Ukr then he should not have a very big problem in Ukr joining NATO if he gets no. Slice . He would have conseeded to the position of Ukr joining in the first case , it’s only a matter of what he will get in return. I don’t think either option would be accepted by Putin .



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Not a bad idea:

    Lithuania has called for a naval coalition “of the willing” to lift the Russian Black Sea blockade on Ukrainian grain exports.

    The Lithuanian foreign minister, Gabrielius Landsbergis, proposed the plan during talks with the UK foreign secretary, Liz Truss, on Monday in London.

    “Time is very very short. We are closing in on a new harvest and there is no other practical way of exporting the grain except through the Black Sea port of Odesa,” he told the Guardian.

    There is no way of storing this grain and no other adequate alternative route. It is imperative that we show vulnerable countries we are prepared to take the steps that are needed to feed the world.


    A barley field near Kyiv in 2016. Landsbergis said ‘the worst is yet to come in the next five to seven weeks when the first harvest arrives and there is no place to put it’. Photograph: Valentyn Ogirenko/Reuters

    Landsbergis proposed that a naval escort operation – not run by Nato – could protect the grain ships as they headed through the Black Sea and past Russian warships. He suggested that, apart from Britain, countries that were affected by the potential loss of grain such as Egypt could provide the necessary protection.

    What we have seen now is just the beginning. The worst is yet to come in the next five to seven weeks when the first harvest arrives and there is no place to put it, so that means people in northern Africa, the Middle East and south-east Asia will be paying exorbitant prices for wheat, corn and the other commodities they need to put food on their table.

    He said Ukraine needed to export 80m tonnes of wheat alone this year and the only option was through Odesa, the last Black Sea port held by Ukraine.

    His plan, under gestation for weeks, would require demining parts of the Black Sea to ensure safe passage, as well as the agreement of Turkey, which guards the entrance to the Black Sea.

    “This would be a non-military humanitarian mission and is not comparable with a no-fly zone,” he said.

    In this endeavour military ships or planes or both would be used to ensure that the grain supplies can leave Odesa safely and reach the Bosphorus without Russian interference. We would need a coalition of the willing – countries with significant naval power to protect the shipping lanes, and countries that are affected by this.

    Nato as an alliance should not take a role, he said.

    The UN secretary general, António Guterres, has warned of “a hurricane of hunger” if Ukrainian grain is not exported. The world’s 41 least-developed nations import a third of their wheat from Ukraine and Russia. Soaring food prices have already driven inflation levels in Egypt to the highest level since mid-2019.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,928 ✭✭✭Cordell


    The nuclear threats made in the media were intended for the western people, to scare them away from supporting Ukraine and supporting sanctions against Russia. The real threats, if any, will be made on other channels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭JoChervil




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    The reaction I can see Russia doing on Odessa is the same with mauripol if that's the case. I mean maybe not with infantry but with missiles etc. Destroy the warehouses storing the grain and destroy the port. Problem. Solved in Putin's eyes. No grain to ship from Odessa no ships to contend with then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    So you are going to fight?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    More than one way to invade a country. Chinese can get involved in funding substantial infrastructure, building factories and investing etc. Gradually over time infiltrate the system with China friendly thinking. Tactics used also by western powers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The position of Ukraine in the east looks increasingly untenable. Russia are making advances all accross the line and it's clear that Ukraine are struggling to plug the gaps.

    Was saying this weeks ago, but giving Ukraine some parts to get some obsolete MiG's back in the air and other equally obsolete S300 air defence systems simply wasn't going to cut it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    That's if Taiwan allow it I suppose. Might be more now that there guaranteed help from America they won't have as much dealings with China in regards to investment, you might see as a way to say thank you to America you might see a lot more trade deals and investment from America into Taiwan now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,708 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I'm sure that Odessa is the most efficient way to get Ukrainian grain to the rest of the world, in normal times, but if Odessa cannot be used because of mines in the Black Sea or missiles pointed at grain warehouses, is there anything that can be done to get the grain out of Ukraine overland into Romania, down to Bulgaria and into Greece, out into the Med? Can ordinary people set up networks to transport some of this grain and improvise places to store it? Is this already happening to an extent? I guess this wouldn't compare in terms of the tonnage you can move over sea in a logistical network designed to carry that kind of cargo, but something is better than nothing.

    The other option is for NATO to finally move forces into Ukraine, confront Russian forces on the ground and rout them. Call Putin's bluff on the nukes. Putin might be well advised not to f**k with the food supply coming out of Ukraine in a total way, lest it leaves the West with no other option.



This discussion has been closed.
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