Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Dohnjoe · 23-05-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119102392#Comment_119102392

Putin's Russia doesn't allow real political opposition and poisons/imprisons/murders them. Quite different from Ukraine not allowing political parties run from the country that is currently invading them.

As for Putin's close friend and agent in Ukraine, Medvedchuk, who was understandably under house arrest in the country he was betraying in just about every way possible, the Russians have already said that since he's not a POW they can't use him for prisoner swaps. Maybe something will happen behind the scenes, or maybe they'll just throw him under a bus.

Charrychar · 23-05-2022 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100168#Comment_119100168

Failed states are invaded\interfered in all the time. Countless failed states have been invaded and or interfered in in recent times to try and bring some normality and freedom back to the place.

Ukraine is, and always has been, a failed state. Trying to blame Putin for all of this is not going to help anyone.

Gatling · 23-05-2022 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103223#Comment_119103223

BS .

This is just trolling

ambro25 · 23-05-2022 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103255#Comment_119103255

Absolutely. The EU would not sign a DCFTA with a ‘failed state’. Not in a month of Sundays.

’Joined Date: May 2022’: banned re-reg or fresh recruit in St Petersburg? Place your bets 😉

Pussyhands · 23-05-2022 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103155#Comment_119103155

What?

Zelensky put sanctions on Medvedchuk last year.

In fact, it was a couple of days after that, that Putin ordered the first Russian soldiers to the Ukrainian border for "military drills". I've pasted bit of an article below that was written on the 2nd February, 3 weeks before the invasion. The bits in bold below are especially important.

Great wars sometimes start over small offenses. A murdered duke. An angered pope. The belief of a lonely king that his rivals aren’t playing fair. When historians study why armies began gathering in Europe during the plague of 2021, their interest might turn to a teenage girl, the goddaughter of Moscow’s isolated sovereign.

Her name is Daria, a young Ukrainian with a shy smile and big brown eyes. When she was born in 2004, her parents asked their friend Vladimir Putin, then a few years into his reign in Russia, to christen her in the Orthodox tradition they all share. The girl’s father, Viktor Medvedchuk, has been close to Putin for decades. They holiday together on the Black Sea. They conduct business. They obsess over the bonds between their countries and the Western forces they see pulling them apart.

“Our relationship has developed over 20 years,” Medvedchuk told me in a rare interview last spring in Kyiv, near the start of the current standoff between Russia and the West over Ukraine. “I don’t want to say I exploit that relationship, but you could say it has been part of my political arsenal.”

Putin could say the same about Medvedchuk. The leading voice for Russian interests in Ukraine, Medvedchuk’s political party is the biggest opposition force in parliament, with millions of supporters. Over the past year, that party has come under attack. Medvedchuk was charged with treason in May and placed under house arrest in Kyiv. Just last month, the U.S. accused him and his allies of plotting to stage a coup with help from the Russian military.

Short of war, one of the best ways that Putin has to influence Ukraine is through Medvedchuk and his political party. So it should not be surprising that Russia’s military standoff with the West has escalated in step with the crackdown against his friend.

Last February, days after the Inauguration of President Joe Biden, America’s allies in Kyiv decided to get tough on Medvedchuk. The Ukrainian government started by taking his TV channels off the air, depriving Russia of its propaganda outlets in the country.

The U.S. embassy in Kyiv applauded the move. About two weeks later, on Feb. 19, 2021, Ukraine announced that it had seized the assets of Medvedchuk’s family. Among the most important, it said, was a pipeline that brings Russian oil to Europe, enriching Medvedchuk and his family—including Putin’s goddaughter, Daria—and helping to bankroll Medvedchuk’s political party.

The first inkling of Putin’s response came less than two days later, at 7 a.m. on Feb. 21. In a little-noticed statement, the Russian Defense Ministry announced the deployment of 3,000 paratroopers to the border with Ukraine for “large-scale exercises,” training them to “seize enemy structures and hold them until the arrival of the main force.” Those soldiers were the first in a military buildup that has since grown to more than 100,000 Russian troops. In their scramble to respond, the U.S. and its allies have sent planeloads of weapons to Ukraine and thousands of troops to secure the eastern flank of the NATO alliance.

But the roots of the crisis have been overlooked. To understand Putin’s objectives, you have to understand both his personal and political ties to Ukraine, as well as his long-standing aim to bring the nation under his control. When Medvedchuk was placed under house arrest, the Russian leader called the attack on his proxies “an absolutely obvious purge of the political field,” one that threatened to turn Ukraine “into Russia’s antithesis, a kind of anti-Russia.”

https://time.com/6144109/russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-viktor-medvedchuk/

If you think the yanks are supporting Ukraine because it's the right thing, you're very very naive. The US wants access to Ukraine natural resources so they can hurt Russia.

Where is the US moral compass when it comes to Saudi? There's talk Biden is going to meet the Crown Prince soon. The man who ordered the murder of Kashoggi. Qatar were recently announced as an ally of the US, a country with slaves.

odyssey06 · 23-05-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103223#Comment_119103223

Russia should have invaded itself then. Ukraine was in more of a normal state and with more freedoms than Russia pre-invasion.

But of course everyone can see Russia isn't there to return Ukraine to a 'normal' state. Just to loot it and pillage it and seize its territories and treat its citizens like serfs. Though I suppose that is 'normal' - for Russia. You obviously have no conception of freedom if you think what Russia is doing has anything to do with it.

The failed state us Russia. And a free and prosperous Ukraine trading with the EU would have demonstrated that even to Russians.

Charrychar · 23-05-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103289#Comment_119103289

Absolute nonsense, you have no understanding of the situation in Russia/Ukraine. The Ukrainian government does not and never has cared about their people, which is why it is the poorest in Europe by far. For instance, the 2020 Ukrainian budget planned to spend 66% on repaying loans, on military and security (SBU). In Russia, the largest money will be spent on social projects and increasing quality of life.

briany · 23-05-2022 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103273#Comment_119103273

Overt trolls have not been making much headway in Ukraine threads so far. There are some who try a more subtle approach at first, but they eventually fall off the fence and onto Russia's side.

Dohnjoe · 23-05-2022 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103284#Comment_119103284

You seem to have missed the fact that Russia has indirectly been at war with Ukraine for over 8 years. Medvedchuk is rumoured to have been ear-marked to run a newly occupied Ukraine (with Yanukovych on ice). No one is the slightest bit surprised a leader of a party backed by the invading country, and a close associate of Putin, who has been sanctioned and stands accused on multiple accounts, was put under house arrest.

Not interested in your Putinesque tinfoil rants about the US, but I am not surprised those are your world views.

odyssey06 · 23-05-2022 4:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103352#Comment_119103352

Absolute nonsense, yes you said it. That pretty much sums up every post you have made which is just mouthing the most braindead Russian propaganda. Propaganda so obvious and unconvincing it must be targeting only the most ignorant and blinkered.

We have seen how much Russia cares for people by the journalists it has murdered, by what happens anyone who voices opposition to Putin. Or the tens of thousands of Russian soldiers who won't be coming home in one piece, or coming home at all - because they were sent in to invade Ukraine with bad leadership and bad weapons, because of corruption in Russia and its dictator.

You wonder why Ukraine spends on military? We have seen what happens to Ukranians when left defenceless against Russians. Russia's war crimes are legion, their abuse of civilians horrific. Their actions are those of slave masters not liberators. At least Ukraine's military preparedness means there are a lot more dead Russians in Ukraine now, and Ukraine has a chance of a future as a country and not a vassal state of Russia.

And obviously you have no understanding of Ukraine, as you don't understand why they fight for that future. A future free of the malign depredations of failed state Russia.

Charrychar · 23-05-2022 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103404#Comment_119103404

So we are in agreement then that Ukraine is a failed state? I see you avoided answering any of my questions and instead went on to spout your usual nonsense.

odyssey06 · 23-05-2022 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103478#Comment_119103478

Ukraine is not a failed state. That is why Russia is invading it because it is on path to freedom and prosperity as an EU member not a Russian colony.

A failed state would not still be fighting in open warfare an invasion by one of the worlds largest militaries. Its capital still Ukranian.

It would not have inflicted tens of thousands of Russian casualties.

The fail is Russias. It has failed to defeat Ukraine army or seize capital.

Re-reg alert if you are familiar with my previous posts... ooops your mask slipped.

Dohnjoe · 23-05-2022 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103352#Comment_119103352

Absurd stuff.

Ukraine's economy has stagnated because of it's traditional economic reliance and ties with Russia (like many Russian satellites). This is one of the key reasons why Ukraine wants to join the EU.

Also, Ukraine is not a "failed" state, ridiculous. It's a democracy that is performing remarkably well considering the decade of war and harassment from it's totalitarian neighbour. The fact that it could muster such a resistance to the full onslaught of one of the world's largest military superpowers is testament to how much Ukrainians value their freedom and democracy, and are willing to lay down their lives for those ideals.

Sugar_Rush · 23-05-2022 7:18pm

A lengthy two hour interview.

From a media researcher (per se) who has intimate familiarity with the political background between the two states, giving an alternate perspective on the Russian/Ukraine conflict:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygAqYC8JOQI

First two-thirds are interesting, the last part is irrelevant but, his perspective, whether valid or no, stands in surprising contrast to the western position.

TBH he sounds kind of pro-Putin controversial, but I'm posting to get others opinions on his stance, is there any validity or merit therein?

Was Zelensky a "democratic authoritarian" with corresponding low approval ratings?

Did Ukraine authorize assassinations against anti-state commentators in much the same fashion as Russia has?

After the Ukraine coup, was Zelensky defiant against any kind of diplomatic contact or inter-state liaison with Russia?

It was a surprising dialogue to listen to and even more surprising, the interviewer is conventionally known for targeting his interviewee's with objectionable questions, but seemed content to let this controversial viewpoint go unchallenged.

It's chaptered:

0:00 - Introduction

2:54 - Nuclear power

15:52 - Russia and US relations

21:07 - JFK and the Cold War

26:24 - Interviewing Putin

50:02 - Invasion of Ukraine

59:20 - Why Putin invaded Ukraine

1:13:44 - Propaganda

1:21:02 - Interviewing Putin in 2022

1:28:17 - Nuclear war

1:34:28 - Advice on interviewing

1:38:09 - Interviewing Hitler

1:41:30 - Putin interview language barrier

1:42:41 - Love

1:44:36 - Advice to young people

1:47:42 - Mortality

1:48:44 - Regrets

1:50:41 - Meaning of life

Charrychar · 23-05-2022 9:32pm

Russia did not cause this, Ukraine has been a failed state since its inception.

josip · 23-05-2022 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104518#Comment_119104518

At this point in time it's obvious that Russia is the failed state. And it's about to become a lot failier.

Charrychar · 23-05-2022 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104709#Comment_119104709

Ukraine is the failed state. Ukraine is a middle-income country. Before the war Its GDP per Capita was somewhere around 3000$ which is similar to Libya or Paraguay. That’s not terrible, but what is terrible is how Ukraine has stagnated since the fall of the Soviet Union. By the World Bank’s reckoning, Ukraine is about 20% poorer now than it was in 1990!

Ukraine has failed as a state and something has to change. Libya had a GDP Per Capita of 16,000 before the Libyan war. Libya now has a GDP of 3000$ the same as Ukraine had before the war so we can only imagine how much of a failed state Ukraine will be in a few years.

Dohnjoe · 24-05-2022 12:06am

Closing in on 4k Russian vehicles/pieces of equipment destroyed (visually confirmed, so the real number is higher)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1

For comparison Ukraine is around 1k.

Fighting Tao · 24-05-2022 7:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105159#Comment_119105159

It was 4K a few days ago. Ot was stirring at 3.7k and Oryx had 300-400 more to add.

Charrychar · 24-05-2022 1:45pm

Ukraine is a failed state. Libya had far better conditions and a far higher standard of living to Ukraine before the Americans decided one of the most well off countries in Africa had failed as a state so I don’t see how Ukraine doesn’t qualify as being a failed state in the eyes of some people on here. Then again people’s opinions on here are politically motivated.

Gatling · 24-05-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106919#Comment_119106919

Your an awful excuse for a troll posting nothing but utter nonsense and false narratives .

Sam Russell · 24-05-2022 1:56pm

@Charrychar 'Ukraine is a failed state' - Yeah

It is now because it has been invaded by another failed state intended on bombing it back to the stone age, and obliterating its culture and identity, terrorising its people with murder, rape, theft, and pillage.

Why would one failed state try to do this to a neighbour? That is the question you should ask you Russian bot masters.

wassie · 24-05-2022 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106919#Comment_119106919

Re-reg nonsense.

Field east · 24-05-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106919#Comment_119106919

So what , if it is a failed state. But of the THOUSANDS OF WAYS that one could use to help it to succeed- ONE of them is NOT to invade with one of the biggest army’s in the world - Putin Would agree with that- to indiscriminately rape, murder, maim, frighten all in front of you and level as many buildings as you can, destroy as much infrastructure as you can and if that’s not enough then drive as many people as you can out of the country with just their clothes on their backs.

GOOD MAN YOURSELF - YOU AND YOUR FAILED STATE. GET UP THE YARD WITH YOUR ABSOLUTE TRIPE.

Charrychar · 24-05-2022 2:07pm

Absolute nonsense being repeated on here over and over again by the Bidenbots.

Ukraine is a failed state, failed states get invaded all the time by the Americans and British yet none of the same people on here even bat an eyelid. I come on here in the evenings and all I hear is people soundboarding Joe Biden. Sheep.

Detritus70 · 24-05-2022 2:08pm

People, why do you feed the troll? First rule of the internet since ever.

Don't engage.

24-05-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107123#Comment_119107123

Yeah just report.

Charrychar · 24-05-2022 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107123#Comment_119107123

Usual nonsense on here, anyone with a difference of opinion is a troll. Ukraine has been a failed state since its inception, that’s just a fact. Failed states get invaded all the time, that’s another fact.

Nothing but a bunch of American wannabe sheep on this thread, you’d get more diversity and difference of opinion in the Kremlin than this thread.

Podge_irl · 24-05-2022 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107015#Comment_119107015

It is now

It quite clearly isn't though. Failed states don't defend their homeland with excellent organisation and sky high morale and inflict massive casualties on numerically larger and ostensibly more advanced enemies. The Ukrainian defence of their country is all the evidence you need to know that the idea of them being a failed state is utter horseshit.

Wildlife Actor · 24-05-2022 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106919#Comment_119106919

Do your bosses require you to state "ukraine is a failed state" in every post? It is very telling.

By what metrics do you (or your bosses) measure failure of statehood? Nonsensical made up stats about budget expenditure (got a source for that there?)?

And I see we're now onto Egyptian Whataboutery 101.

It's time to update your playbook. This is all too familiar...

Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Comments