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Texas School shooting 19 children and 2 adults murdered

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Where's that quote that the rednecks love to use about sacrificing liberty for security?

    Clearly the solution to mass shootings is to make every building a prison to keep the shooters out (or in, or something). There's no other solution, nosirree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,288 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I am not interested in innocent school children, I am interested in why he did what he did.

    Gun culture is a contributing factor but probably not the reason why the guy went on a rampage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,733 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Yeah, it looks unlikely that anything significant will change in the States vis a vis gun laws. SKY News interviewed a woman who was actually living in the town where that shooting happened and even she didn't want gun control. If you can't get everyone in the town where it happened onside, you've no hope anywhere else in the country.

    So, because of the pushback by the gun lobby and 2nd amendment people, and because the U.S. black/grey market is probably awash with guns of all kinds anyway, attempting to bring in more effective gun control just isn't really a goer.

    The idea of Americans shooting each other is at least as old as the country itself, but random mass shootings where a maniac kills in the double digits is something that was quite rare before Columbine. Why is it that in a country which has always had plenty of guns, these random shootings have only really become a constant thing in the last 25 years? If that question could be answered, then at least you could try and formulate an idea of how to reverse that trend back to a pre-1999 state, i.e. an America that still had lots of guns but random shootings weren't taking place every month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Fattybojangles


    What a disgusting and sickening society the USA truly is a blight on our planet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    That would pretty much describe Sandyhook. White suburban Connecticut. It really does not matter to the NRA what kind of children are slaughtered as long as they have their penis substitute man toys.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    Won't work in America, most gun violence occurs in states with strict gun laws.

    Schools need to hire armed guards, plenty of ex vets that are patriotic Americans that would love to "protect the kids"

    And I am being cheesy here on purpose, it will appeal to them, but it will also save lives, so they should go for it ..



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    That’s nice, but I’d rather not give the sack of sh*t any attention.

    Interesting that it’s the murderer rather than the children he murdered that you’re more concerned about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,171 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Parents, Teachers, Peers, Police, Social Media,...one if not all played a role, I'm not sure he even identified as a he going by some of the pictures out there, kid was confused, it's how he got to that point is what needs to be understood.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Just waiting for the Republican response now, which will obviously be the usual "now is not the time to talk about gun laws, we must show our deep distress but we won't talk about gun laws". If this isn't the time, when is?

    I fail to see why anyone in a supposedly civilised world needs an automatic weapon. It makes zero sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The why is fairly secondary here. If the country wasn't awash with guns, then his ability to go on any kind of rampage would be very limited. This wouldn't be international news and a small Texas town would be talking about how a young man stabbed his grandmother before crashing his car and being arrested by the cops.

    But really the other side of the coin - why so many rampages happen in the US - is the neo-libertarian "every man for himself" culture that has grown in the US since the end of WW2. This creates enormous pressures on young men in particular to be successful at everything, all the time, and without anyone's help. And if you're not, it's all your fault, you're the loser.

    Coupled with a lack of and continuously reducing social support, means enormous amounts of unchecked mental illness because people can't or won't seek out help. Put these two together, and you have the perfect recipe for someone who is ready to go out on a rampage.

    In other countries, he might grab a knife or two on his way out the door. In America, they make sure he has at least one gun in his hand first.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭rogber


    I agree the NRA couldn't care less and perhaps you're right, the gun fanatics would probably just say "the solution to gun violence is more guns so people can protect themselves".

    There are extreme internal tensions in the US and they're going to explode at some point



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,733 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I think the 'why' is effectively the primary thing because it's sadly a given at this stage that America will never significantly overhaul its gun laws. Therefore the 'why' is all you're left to work with.

    America has always had plenty of access to guns, and it has presumably always had young men with mental/emotional issues a severe nature, yet it hasn't always had these kinds of regular mass shootings.

    There is a 3rd factor at play, here, I think. You have the guns, you have the angry young men, but you also have a culture that glorifies a mass shooter. Go to the article on the Columbine shooting. You'll read a lot more about the perpetrators and the weapons they used than the victims who were killed.

    Not that I'm attempting to deflect blame in any way from the guns themselves. If America could have tighter gun control laws, I think things would improve, but if they're not prepared to shift after all the atrocities that have taken place, it's likely that nothing will ever, ever change, there, so the only thing left to do is have conversations about mental health provisions and the culture which has sprung up around these kinds of incidents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Just to show how bad it is this is the 100th school shooting to take place in Texas alone ,

    And yet they don't care ,they live in a paranoid state of mind , someone is coming to get them , maybe this is behind the idea of banning hundreds of childrens books,if they can white wash their history of any atrocities and racism and homophobia , they won't need access to guns



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,288 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Of course I am interested in the “why”. And I find it rather astonishing that you are dismissing it entirely.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Every single mass shooting event was carried out by someone using a legally held weapon.

    "Illegal guns" have ZERO to do with it.

    There is a simple question to be asked - What is different in the US to every other country on the Planet that makes incidents like this happen there on a horrifyingly frequent basis and simply never happen anywhere else?

    What is the unique difference that allows a damaged person to carry out atrocities like this in the US and not anywhere else?

    The answer isn't "Poor Mental Care services" or the lack of "Good Guys with Guns".

    The answer is painfully, brutally obvious to anyone with a shred of honesty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones



    there has been a mass shooting (4 or more people shot in one location) almost every single day of the year in the US. To say that every one of them is from a registered legal gun is either misinformation or an intentional lie.

    Please scroll down and see the list. It's actually shocking. We only hear about 1%

    For example on may 10th alone there was 6 separate mass shootings. Look at where they happened - baltimore, Chicago etc

    Illegally held gang crime hotspots



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,319 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    One wonders why so many Irish people take their cultural influences from the United States after these kinds of things.

    It should lead people away from American culture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    I have noticed on boards a tendency for the indefensible to be defended by newly created accounts. Ukraine/Russia, Climate change, Anti-vacc, American penis substitute laws.

    It is almost as if people paid to support certain political agendas wait for these profound events to happen and create accounts to lie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭screamer


    Looking at the why can’t be standalone. If mental illness or marginalisation are factors here, well i suggest that even in our own little country we have people who have the same issues. However, what they don’t have is access to guns. These are not standalone issues. However, change only comes about through change. If they leave it all as it is, it will remain so.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    OK, Let me qualify - Every School shooting has been carried out with a legally held gun.

    Better??



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Explain the 100 Texas school shootings with legally held firearms .

    Not gangs ,drugs



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Eircom_Sucks


    mental health is a huge factor

    that and you can buy a gun but not a kinder egg , crazy

    or a gun but no beer till 21



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,733 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I think we've all noticed that. They're wasting their time on forums like this where you can see the edgy opinion and you can see the join date, and so put 2 and 2 together. Nor do they come in enough numbers to back each other up and normalise their opinion. They're much better off on Twitter where they can operate as swarms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    AMERICA PENIS SUBSTITUTE LAWS? what

    it the same loser who keeps trolling, most threads are started by them, they are most likely being paid by the tax payer



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    It's not even shocking anymore, just yesterdays news.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    Yes, Penis substitute laws. Defend the indefensible and I will ridicule.


    A normal person in a normal society has no reason to own a gun. In the last decade I have seen perhaps 1 gun in Ireland.

    Inadequate people require penis substitutes or man toys because they feel the need to reinforce their inadequate masculinity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Just to clarify on the above point, Adam Lanza stole the guns he used in Sandy Hook. He stole them from his mother. Once he stole them, they were no longer legally held.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    But has it not reached a point where there is a collective societal responsibility, rather than only an individual responsibility?

    I appreciate guns are not the ONLY part of the problem,there are clearly many other societal issues at play in creating a "perfect storm" situation where somebody can have the thought process and the means to do this. But guns are an "easy win" in a way - they could be hit hard and fast and would quickly reduce the sheer number of deaths, allowing space to focus on the other problems around mental health/societal issues.

    And I get that it comes back to "why should we all "suffer" because one person did wrong" but that's the lifelong question really, isn't it?Kids have privileges like phones, pocket money, independence revoked for bad behaviour, to teach them how life works, yet revoking the near universal access to guns in the US for everybody is somehow wrong despite the fact that mass shootings are happening time and time again??

    It just seems very hypocritical of American society to constantly bemoan how appalling these tragedies are, but then 5 seconds later to say things like "I have a right to have MY gun". It's happening too often for that right to be an automatic assumption anymore I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Claimed to be stolen and actually stolen are two different things



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'm a gun owner. Am I not a normal person? You'd better inform the Gardai, my wife, my work colleagues, my doctor etc. that I'm not normal.

    You obviously have been very sheltered if you've only seen one gun in Ireland in the last decade. There are almost 200k legally held firearms in Ireland. On an average weekend, I'd see at least 100 guns. By the way, I own guns for target shooting. My sport. It's actually an Olympic sport.

    There are other reasons for owning guns too, such as hunting, vermin control etc.

    I must notifiy the Irish Farmers Association that most of their members aren't normal and have no reason to own a gun. Their members (farmers) are the largest gun owning body in the Country.



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