Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Imo while Jones has had some extremely high highs, you'd have to say he's underperformed in totality as England coach. Given the resources they have available in terms of money and players. He's had 2 championships in a row now where England have only won 2 games. I don't think an Irish coach would survive that. Kidney in 2013 had 1 win and 1 draw and was shown the door, EOS in 2008 had 2 wins and same.

The thing is though, Eddie Jones used this years 6N purely as a building block towards RWC 2023 and the RFU allowed him to do so (which I think devalues the 6N, but that's a different discussion). If they win the World Cup they won't care if he got two consecutive wooden spoons.

The IRFU go into every 6N to win it and unlike English coaches who are judged on RWC performance, an Irish coach is judged on 6N performance. Lancaster's 6N performance was consistently good (4/5 for 4 consecutive years, and incredibly unlucky not to win it in 2014 and 2015) yet he was sacked after a poor world cup. An Irish coach would probably have kept his job through that. If Joe Schmidt was an England coach he probably would have been sacked after 2015, even with his 6N record the two years before.

I think it was probably a bit similar at Leinster with Cheika and Smith. Smith was a master coach, but it's probably fair to say he wasn't as good as Cheika - or indeed Lancaster - at building a strong squad. Different coaches have different strengths, I suppose.

Not even sure who Smith is? Alas Smith and Jones.

I assume you’re not referring to the most successful coach in Irish history there, Joe Schmidt?

I'm not sure I fully agree with this.

Jamie George was capped by Lancaster but only became a starter in 2018 under Eddie. The Vunipolas were both squad players under Lancaster and only became world class under Eddie. Eddie gave Sinckler and Itoje their debuts in 2016. Curry was identified by Eddie in 2017 when he was just 19. Underhill was also brought in by Eddie.

Playing Ford and Farrell together and building his style around their strengths was EJ's idea. Lancaster tried it in one game in 2014 but didn't pursue it seriously. Tuilagi would have played in 2015 had he been available, sure. Watson and May were both there under Lancaster, fair enough. But Daly made his debut under Eddie and it was his idea to move him to 15, which worked extremely well for about a year.

England team v SA 2019

1. Vunipola
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Curry
7. Underhil
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi
14. Watson
15. Daly

England team v Aus 2015

1. Marler
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Barrett
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

Only 4 players were still there in 2019. All in the backs.

O'Gara won European player of the 15 years in a row. Incredible achievement!

The award is a joke. This won't be popular around here but O'Mahony is a prime example of how ridiculous the process is. He won 18 turnovers in 6 games, 10 more than the next best. He also stole 8 lineouts which is double what the player in second place has. By rights those numbers alone should have seen him make the shortlist. He didn't even make the longlist. JOD did for getting a MOTM award on his 150th appearance, despite the fact he conceded 4 or 5 turnovers over the course of the game.

JOD has had a good season but O'Callaghan gave him the award on his 150th appearance despite him not being in the top 5 best players that day. Dupont was nominated after playing 60 minutes (against Cardiff?). The whole thing is farcical.

Who said he was?

Exactly my point, the issue now is who do we know is going to come back into the England team and totally change the game for England? Yes they do have young players coming through who could do the job but it will all be based potential rather than any tangible evidence, at no point this RWC cycle have England looked like a potential RWC winning side and quite frankly are going to have to show improvement beyond all recognition in the next 12 months to change that.

tuilagi might be one of the most overrated players in the world, hes not going to completely change the game for them

That might have been the case in 2019 but in 2023 he'll be 32, there are question marks weather his body at that age can withstand the way he plays the game. He will improve the side no doubt but will he be the game changer he was in 2019? I have my doubts. Of the players mentioned the only one I can see coming back and potentially being a game changer is Owen Farrell.