The employment crisis in the hospitality sector.

Seems people still think the Hospitality sector is run by or dependent Teenagers and college students which is just not the case, they play a roll of course but generally only at a service level.

There's also a lot of talk about margins and it's true, if Kitchens are Managed properly by professionals exceptionally high margins can be achieved, however all to often Kitchens are not being managed efficiently, partially because of inexperienced staff (increasingly so over the past 10 years) and partially complacency, possibly as a result of dissatisfied staff.

But the other challenges on wether a food business is viable go way beyond the kitchen. There's little point in breaking down how profitable a bowl of soup is, Food preparation is generally prepared in Bulk with the exception of cooked to order items, Steak, Fish, Chicken etc, it's more cost effective to make 20 portions of a soup or sauce as it is to make 1 portion. How ingredients are sourced, their cost and preparation all of critical importantance in achieving an actual margin.

Beyond the Kitchen, assuming its managed properly (And they are often Not) is were ultimate Margins are determined, Over Heads, Staffing and Utility costs and ultimately bums on seats. There's ultimately no point in having a fantastic Kitchen and staff if they are essentially producing produce that will ultimately be served at a loss when all costs factored in, it's basic economics. There's a simple way to determine the viability of a restaurant for example. Breaking down all projected costs to include the most trivial of expenses, work out a projected spend per head, weekly turnover etc and base your numbers on a 5 day week even if open 7, basically assume two days of no trade. If you come up with with a net profit, you've some chance of success. It is estimated that it takes a minimum of 18 months for a new restaurant to achieve even a basic profit. Obviously takeaway food business are different so I'm leaving that aside, also worth noting if a restaurant is leased and subject to high rents, the challenges are far greater.

In essence there's no point in being a busy fool and with increasing costs from produce to utilities, difficulty getting and retaining staff, businesses just have to be realistic on wether they are viable or Not. All to often people open restaurants with grand notions of automatic success without actually doing even basic projections or understanding costs, this is why an enormous percentage fail even in normal times.

Can you show me a few examples of these other peoples experiences? Most of them seemed to be the usual moan about everything comments tbh, about Keeling bringing in people from Africa and Pat McDonagh should be paying the living wage from his profits.

I've "delved" into the industry recently and contracts of employments seem quite reasonable and most jobs include systems such as tronc, 50% discount if you bring your family in for a meal, free on duty meals from the menu, advanced roster software with holidays automatically credited etc.

But hey ho its easier say its a horrible industry that bullys kids isn't it.

Oh look, here is a barmans job in Dublin €16-€20 an hour.

Senior Bartender (Accommodation Can Be Arranged)

- job post

Oliver St. John Gogartys

Temple Bar, County Dublin

€16 - €20 an hour - Full-time

You clearly have no idea of what a slave is. These people can leave and change career. Nobody stopping them. A slave can't leave their job.

Exactly, most people there is huge profit in a pub just because a bottle of vodka that costs €25 sells for €125.

Is this based on your actual recent experiences working in a whole lot of places or something you just made up?

Why would you have little time off to bring your family for a meal?

Why would you not get time to eat your meal break on a wet Wednesday night?

So people book a sun holiday and let their employer know 6 months in advance. Then when it comes to it they are not allowed go and they lose all their money. Any actual example of this please?

Wetherspoons would be a more no frills Ryanair/Lidl of pubs type model. They don't have as many staff as a regular pub, service is generally poor in most of their pubs, ordering on the app probably saves them money in some way or another and less overheads such as paying for Sky Sports which would be a big expense for most pubs.

I hadn't seen your earlier post, but one bad experience does not define the whole industry. I had a quick look and head chef jobs are paying about €70000, after that its up to the chef to put his foot down and refuse to come in on his day off or work later than contracted.

To be fair , very few going into the hospitality sector professionally are not looking at the salary or hours , it's a calling that may or may not work out , few new recruits know about the hardships beyond accepting training will be tough, there's nothing in the handbook that mentions poor working conditions, excessively long hours, lack of breaks , time off, non payment of entitlements etc.

Other graduates you've used to compare of course work long hours , complete extensive training and courses but ultimately achieve careers in highly regulated sectors, much less working hours, career progression, good salaries and pensions, there's no such Luxuries in hospitality and early burn out, dissatisfaction and departures very common.

There was a time I knew people in the industry who'd been in it for decades, over the past 30 years I've met very few who've lasted more than a few years and that's just being totally honest.

It's a changing business model.

We have evolved as a society.

The demand for eating out and easy tech based delivery services has grown in the last two decades.

So there will always be a market for people to try and get into, but until someone becomes really established in that market it's a hard slog.

As another poster said it's a 18 month job just to test the water.

And this current shortage notwithstanding there will always be a jobs market of some sort for the unskilled and unqualified.

Some may be unskilled and unqualified because they are young and just starting out, others because they just never developed the skills or qualifications.

And hospitality jobs fit.

You don't pay rent on €11 an hour. You get the rent supplement.

You don't stay on €11 an hour either, you either get a supervisors job or go work elsewhere that pays higher.

Its the second highest minimum wage in Europe.

Its an entry level wage, get experience on your CV and move on.

There has to be a lowest wage, we have to set the bar somewhere, in Ireland its €10.50, the second highest in Europe.

The idea is not to be stuck on it for any longer than necessary.

You seem to think we should be pay 18 year olds with no experience €15 an hour and then you will be moaning about the price of everything.

I love the silver bullet solution of "get a job that pays better" while even those on what would be good salaries are also starting to feel the pressures of inflation.

Not to mention that it's not always that easy to just go get another job that pays more.

...again, this kind of ignorance is regularly trotted out, but again, we actually dont live in this perfect world, whereby people can just simply retrain and wonder into other sectors with greater pay and conditions, and theres plenty of stats to support this also! for example, if a person fails to gain a foot hold in a career in their twenties, the odds of them doing so, later in life, rapidly diminishes, they will more than likely remain either long term unemployed, or in low waged work for the entirety of their working career. this is actually a common occurrence, for various different and generally complex social reasons, including rising wealth inequality etc etc

Don't mention the ready to go dinners some places are serving at weddings...

Its really not Pat McDonaghs fault though if somebody fails to make progress in their 20's.

Setting the minimum wage to €20 an hour as a safety net for these people is not the solution.

Its up to them to make the most of their lives, and idling working in pubs or chippers is not the employers fault.

I rarely see anything but young people in McDonalds except supervisors.

The problem is bar and restaurant work being seen as an "entry level" or minimum wage industry - thats not normal in Europe for hospitality to be almost exclusively staffed by students and immigrants

We are one of the more expensive places though, but we do not pay our staff more.

Well it looks like even those workers dont want to do it anymore, based on the staffing shortages.