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Texas School shooting 19 children and 2 adults murdered

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    #212
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,861 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111235#Comment_119111235

    It's the type of firearm is the problem. Not many legally owned fully automatic rifles in Ireland



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    #213
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111235#Comment_119111235

    No I would dispute that. We have had several cases of Garda been forced to shot people with mental illness who threatened family members. We have had numerous murder suicides.

    I repeat the life/death of 1 or 2 people outweighs the childish hobbies of 200,000.



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    #214
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111254#Comment_119111254

    The old hurley road rage incidents would turn to bang bang incidents instead

    domestic violence would turn to murder suicide

    police would need to wear guns as criminals would have easy access to them so violence would escalate



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    #215
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111302#Comment_119111302

    I think we are agreeing with each other in a round about way. You are just a little more tolerant of the opinions of guns owners, while while I have zero tolerance for them.



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    #216
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111054#Comment_119111054

    He murdered his mother ,but I believe the gun/s were bought for him , rather than he stole them from the mother,she was also very much aware of his State of mind leading up to the shooting and chose to ignore the red flags .

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #217
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111335#Comment_119111335

    He murdered his granny not his mother AFAIK.

    The day he turned 18 he legally bought the weapons.

    The gunman allegedly legally purchased two assault rifles at a local gun store on his 18th birthday, Democratic Texas State Senator Roland Gutierrez told USA TODAY.

    "It was the first thing he did when he turned 18," he said on CNN, citing a briefing from Texas Rangers. 

    EDIT - Different Mass Shooting, hard to keep up.



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    #218
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111236#Comment_119111236

    The problem with the laws around gun ownership though all stem from the second amendment. Or rather the convenient interpretation of it. It makes it very difficult to make laws at a federal level controlling guns beyond a very general level. Either someone will pay the supreme court judges loads of money to call a federal law unconstitutional, or they'll use various tricks and nonsense in the legislature to block federal laws under the guise of protecting constitutional rights.

    As a result you've got this insane mish-mash of gun laws because each state has vast freedom to decide for itself.

    Without a second amendment, it would be much easier to mandate controls at a federal level. And you wouldn't have this insanity where people can walk around with a gun on their belt and the police cannot stop and challenge them. Open carry doesn't cause mass shootings, of course. But it feeds into the cultural problem and makes it insanely difficult to prevent shootings before they happen. It also does lead to heat-of-the-moment murders. Where in other countries it would be two knuckledraggers brawling in traffic, in the US it's someone getting shot in the head.



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    #219
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111322#Comment_119111322

    i think thats fair, I'm not in favour of total bans of most things

    I will say I have been to a gun range, and it was pretty amazing, if anything I left with even more respect for these things than before

    Dont feel urge to own one personally, if I did, I'd reckon secure storage at a range would be a good idea, would reduce some of the suicide etc issues

    thankful I live somewhere I don't need one



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    #220
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111377#Comment_119111377

    Isn't that just the point, the paradox is that in the US people only feel the need to own guns because of the threat created by the widespread ownership of guns.



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    #221
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111042#Comment_119111042

    We'll never know about Lanza. He killed his mother first and then massacred those poor children. Mom had taken him to training classes and at least one of them was an NRA member at one point.

    And, nothing changed. Nor will it now.



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    #222
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111368#Comment_119111368

    He murdered his mother

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #223
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111368#Comment_119111368

    you are confusing the massacres, i think this shows the madness of it all



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    #224
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111417#Comment_119111417

    Totally agree ,

    In a state especially Texas 100 school shootings alone and they are more concerned with banning children's books

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #225
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111094#Comment_119111094

    She used them to bond with her son. Took him to training classes. She was a 'shooting enthusiast.' I must correct myself, it seems they weren't actually NRA members, but had some certificates from NRA training classes. SO, I'd say shooting was her hobby, and heck, why not leave an arsenal around the house when you live with a psychopath? One that the school had warned her about in the past?


    https://www.businessinsider.com/nancy-lanza-nra-certificate-adam-sandy-hook-shooting-2013-12?r=US&IR=T



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    #226
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111430#Comment_119111430

    A few years ago, 'out of respect' the trollfest that is the NRA meeting on the 27th in Texas, would've been postponed or some of the headliners like Abbott and the #2xIMPOTUS would bow out. Not now. It'll go on as planned and the clowns will be on full display. It's Texas, where a virus has more right to life than women or children.



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    #227
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111411#Comment_119111411

    yeah, even when in the states, I didn't feel the need to own one, perhaps interested in knowing how to use one yes

    i would say in the states, that most people I knew didn't have guns, skewed perhaps, but those who did were very serious about it, as in responsible owners



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    #228
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111468#Comment_119111468

    My experience as well. Depends a lot on where you live. The gun owners I knew were very responsible.



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    #229
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,204 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ah, I don't think America should get rid of guns. Some control on who can and can't get a gun would be good. But in general it's gone too far for getting rid of them. America is such a dangerous place, you'd be forgiven for wanting a gun.

    But it can be a cautionary tale to the rest of the world. I'd oppose the idea of allowing Ireland, or anywhere else, to allow gun ownership like the US.

    Guns are just a symptom of the problem and I don't think they cause the urge to kill school children. If someone wanted to kill school children, they could do it with a knife or explosives (also legal in the US). I think it's a completely broken society where so many people want to kill their fellow citizens. Guns just make it a bit easier to do. If they won't discuss gun co trol then they're in no position to even question what's wrong with their society that causes so many people to want to kill school children.

    I really wish there was a bit more honesty in the debate around guns. The main argument in favour of them is guns are tremendous fun to play with when done safely. If guns weren't fun, there wouldn't be much argument for keeping them.



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    #230
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,288 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111074#Comment_119111074

    Nice story telling. Almost creative.

    Post edited by Jequ0n on


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    #231
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Here's what will happen next in the US.

    Over the next few days various Democrat politicians will demand action on Gun Control and GOP politicians will push back saying "Now is not the time to talk about Guns" or some nonsense along the line of "We should have a SWAT team in every classroom" - See this excerpt from Fox News last night as a case in point - Recommending "Man Traps" and ballistic blankets in every classroom!!!!!

    In the background , Gun Sales will spike as the NRA and gun manufacturers push the narrative that everyone needs more guns to be safe or that "the Democrats are coming for your guns" and specifically Sales of high powered weapons will jump as people buy them in case they get banned in future.

    Then , there'll be a failed attempt at Gun legislation in Congress , blocked by the GOP.

    The GOP will then start to actively campaign for the Mid-terms on "The Democrats want to overturn the 2nd Amendment" and huge amounts of cash will flow their way from the various gun lobbies.

    Fearing the impact of that influx of cash , the Democrats will back off the vocal complaints about the lack of Gun Control and ultimately , F*ck all will change , the Gun makers will have bumper profits this year and more innocent men, women and children will die at the hands of deranged people who have far too easily be able to arm themselves like Stallone in a Rambo movie.

    We've all seen this movie before and we'll all see this movie over and over and over again.



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    #232
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    People saying they don't want to see guns here , we've something like 5 guns per 100 people in this country,while hand guns are pretty much gone to new applicants there's over 100,000 rifles and 50/60,000 shoguns legally held ,

    We've some restrictions but you can have semi automatic rifles including AR15 variants and up to .50 cal precision rifles .


    But we don't have the culture of guns being problem solvers rather than tools for a Job or hobby.

    I personally like guns but I don't plan on owning one for the foreseeable future ,not a big fan of hunting or static shooting of paper targets,

    Where as in America people won't walk down a street ,go to work ,gym , shopping unless they have a consealed pistol , and in some states a semi automatic or select fire AR15 ,

    Guns and paronia don't mix

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #233
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111302#Comment_119111302

    I know I for one wouldn't be so quick to anger on the roads if there was a decent chance of the arsehole who pissed me off had a gun. 🤣

    FFS paracetamol suicide deaths fell massively just by reducing the size they can be bought in. Was it expected to stop everyone? No. Same with suicide-prevention stuff on bridges. Just making it that bit harder makes a huge difference. Same would follow with guns and suicide and guns and rampages, if the weapons are harder to come by there'll be less use.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE

    These people don't even believe their own arguments.

    At about 3.40:

    "If someone wants crack cocaine they'll get it." Sooo... there's no point having a law unless it's 100% effective? He realises he's completely tripped up so goes back to "Gun control laws don't work."

    And probably the best bit is at 4.20. Just put it to there and watch for 30 seconds.



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    #234
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,319 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111590#Comment_119111590

    Yes a big sense of let them at it, at this stage. No point even debating it. America is a unending dump with a lack of awareness of how bad it is there.



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    #235
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111226#Comment_119111226

    You do realise that it isn't a free-for-all here in Ireland. There's strict criteria for getting a gun. You cannot be of 'intemperate habits'. You give the Gardai permission to speak to your doctor to see if there's any reason why they think you shouldn't be allowed access to a firearm (depression/mental illness etc.).

    You actually need to have a reason for a gun here in Ireland before the Gardai will give you one. Those reasons are hunting, vermin control and target shooting. Self defence isn't a reason for getting a gun here and if you put that down on the application form, your application will be refused.

    Most gun owners here are pretty ok with this system when it is applied fairly.



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    #236
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111640#Comment_119111640

    I hear home breakers are very complimentary of the current system too.



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    #237
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    123

    Post edited by BattleCorp on


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    #238
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭paul71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111695#Comment_119111695

    Yeah I see people killing other people with salt all the time!!!!!

    Com'on roll out some more NRA rubbish.


    "Today a man shot his wife with salt then turned the salt on his 2 sons before killing himself with salt in a dispute over a will"



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    #239
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭circadian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111695#Comment_119111695


    Jesus wept.



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    #240
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Salt and alcohol are a choice. A bullet in the head isn't, most of the time.



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    #241
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Gun Ownership per se isn't the problem.

    Uncontrolled Gun Ownership and the type of guns sold are the problem.

    The attitude is also a huge difference between the US and almost everywhere else.

    In most places Ireland included, a gun is a tool to complete a task - Vermin Control , Hunting ,Target shooting or whatever

    In the US, the gun itself is the purpose and the status symbol that has to be displayed.

    I live in a rural area and many of my neighbours would have guns for Vermin control or a bit of Pheasant shooting etc.

    However , none of them drive around with the gun on a rack in the back of the Land-Cruiser.

    It only comes out for the specific job and when the job is done it goes back to storage - No different than a drill or a hammer or any other tool they own.

    In the US though for far too many it's a status symbol to be shown off and talked about - Every one of those "open carry" idiots fall into that category.



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