BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

I wouldn't say the original proposal was ditched as it was always the plan for there to a public consultation

I think one of the major reasons why they wouldn't use 1xx numbering is that the majority of the regional (BE/GAI) services out of Dublin being in the 100-140 range, so while there probably wouldn't be many conflicts at individual stops, there still would be two different routes with the same number... (Although one can argue that this is the case anyway with a few of the Expressway routes.) By keeping the numbers to 0-99 and prefixed routes the NTA can finally avoid major conflicts nationwide.......well, they would, if half of the BE-operated towns didn't have prefixes conflicting with the Dublin ones anyway <facepalm>

At the same time when I'd made my only submission (in the first 2018 round of consultations) I argued something yet different: purely numerical route numbers, with the A-G Spines becoming 0x-6x, the N/S/W Orbitals becoming 7x-9x, and the few radials getting numbers from 151 up, and the 2xx and 3xx series remaining as proposed. Of course that never accounted for the H Spine being added in later, and in hindsight a lot of the A-H/N/S/W/P/X makes sense (although with the number of P routes... ah well). It's unfortunate that the word for north starts with an N, I suppose.

The rest is going to be largely off-topic, but anyway:

The Palermo mess escaped my memory, and to be perfectly honest, the 33B and 45A are two weird counterexamples of the logic otherwise prevalent in routes operated by GAI getting suffixes for odd variations... 17/17C/17D: C didn't serve some core stops, 17D terminates at a stop off-route; 63/A: 63A serves extra stops off the core route; same with 75/A, 76/A, 220/A, 236/A, as well as the alphabet attached to the 120s and 126 - and heck, even the 83/A partakes in that logic, but contrary to the GAI services, its timetables are printed as 83, with the 83A only ranking a mention in the explanatory notes. However, in the case of 33A and 185 the variations don't serve stops off the other variations: the Palermo 185s are just a short piece of the Enniskerry route, and when it comes to the 33A you could argue that the Airport-Skerries trips are shorter versions of the Swords-Balbriggan trips (they're not, but once you're on the common route they are), and vice versa. In other words, variations to get separate route numbers are usually ones that, if drawn on a single string diagram, would require a deviation off the core route. Which is why I don't understand the 33B and 45A in this context, as both have variations that deviate mid-route rather than being shorter versions - although admittedly there was some sort of a rumour floating around that the 45A would be split into the 45 and 45A for clarity there. (I cannot think of a single logical reason why the 33A was split into two routes other than BE not wanting to hear of an alternative direct Balbriggan-Airport connection at Dublin city network prices, but that was when fare revenue still mattered. As for Swords-terminating buses running empty to the Airport to do 102s or other 33As, actual working timetables are not set by the NTA, but rather by the Operators to fit whatever resources they have, so that one's entirely on GAI making the most of that pile of puzzle pieces.)

Well, yeah, that's the other thing - they should just have the short services, with Enniskerry 185s not serving the place at all. But I'm going to say this much: if Palermo don't want the service then just take the 185 out of there altogether, if they're that ungrateful. I've been there just once and on a double-decker, was tight enough as it is.

I'm not saying it wasn't the NTA behind it, I'm just trying to come up with any sensible reason for this - whether it came out of BE or was the NTA's own incentive doesn't particularly matter, as both seem valid.

BC reversed this with the 90 minute transfer fare anyway, at this point I think it's just keeping the status quo until that entire corner of the network is replaced with the new one.

Funnily enough, there's at least one route that doesn't match the final network release in each of the three phases so far.

Phase One: you said it yourself, H1 in Clongriffin.

Phase Two: C2 and X30 in Adamstown, C4/6 operating to Maynooth. C2 follows the C1 route for now, X30 is cut short at Dodsboro. C4/6 are meant to be cut short to Celbridge when the W6 comes in (right? right...?).

Phase Three: you said it yourself, N4 and N6 eastern termini. N4 loops around a different street, N6 doesn't reach the coast.

Notwithstanding the C4/6 and maintaining a Maynooth/Celbridge connection ahead of a further phase, all other route adjustments so far are a result of missing or unsuitable road infrastructure... to be honest, that's acceptable, as long as the Authority remembers to then chuck the buses out where they're supposed to be going to when the roads are available!

Regarding the C2, it was supposed to go straight past Westbury Court and onto Shackleton Drive, whereby it would turn left at Lidl before heading down towards Adamstown Station. However, construction of the road beyond Lidl has slowed due to delays in deliveries of building materials, which is why they settled on duplicating the C1. Can’t really blame the NTA for that:

I can't rotate the image but this is the bus stop on the Snugborough Road. You can see the former bus stop in the distance.

These are the new bus stops that appeared in Waterville. However on the current 17A route through Waterville they have updated the stops to say the N4 will stop there and there are signs to prevent Dublin Bus drivers missing the turn into the hospital also.

Google maps has a strange interpretation of the 17a routing seems to suggest it does two loops one around Connolly Hospital and another around Waterville road

There's a fair few routes that don't get shown correctly on Google maps, the 46a & 155 between Dawson Street & Westmoreland Street being one example. Google maps has them doing the same route as the 145 via Please Street (plus a detour via Hawkins Street) rather than using College Green.

Edit: just noticed all 3 routes are also routed via Frederick Street. Looks like Google maps doesn't recognise that the bottom of Dawson Street/Kildare Street are accessible by buses.

I know myself some bus operators having drawn the lines on map themselves using a Google Earth generated file which works perfectly fine on Google Maps. I did this job myself years and years ago having to draw a couple of hundred lines over a few restless months' time. Sometimes even had to take an actual bus and correct bus stop locations on map too as schedulers weren't sure about the true locations. Over 10 years have past and still works fine. People who does the scheduling now simply adjust the lines when needed (even does that just for the weekend when due to special events some streets are closed) and aren't dependant on Google maps, they can also use same file format with Open Street Maps. I know a few operators now using this instead. Irish public transport is extremely lazy in regards to this - too little PT enthusiasts working in their (NTA/TFI and operators) offices. When I was a student I was a volunteer consultant to one of these NTA type of agencies in my own country. It was a great experience. Funny, I sometimes had a word and they actually cared about my opinion. Unlike the NTA, I guess...

What's the problem for pupils to change bus? There already are too many spoiled children who are being brought to school by their parents with a car. They should all take buses and learn an independent and responsible lifestyle as early as possible. Otherwise we see what happens when they get older - plenty of bad examples around.

Looks like they forgot that the 220 will still run…