Are Eir breaching their own terms and conditions here?

podge3 · 27-05-2022 11:54am #1

I was an Eir customer for landline and broadband and outside of my 12 month contract period. I moved to another provider and Eir charged me 1 months rental as I had not given them 1 months notice.

Clause 7.10.3.2 in Eir’s terms and conditions states:

Eir agrees to accept termination of a Customer’s account outside the Initial Period without the need for one (1) months’ notice in which case the Customer will be obliged to pay to eir a termination charge of one (1) month’s rental in lieu of notice. Outside of the Initial Period Customers who wish to terminate for the purposes of changing service provider will not have to pay a termination charge.

I was outside of the initial period and I was moving to another provider. I am not a legal expert but following sentence seems to indicate that I am not liable for a termination charge:

Outside of the Initial Period Customers who wish to terminate for the purposes of changing service provider will not have to pay a termination charge.

It is written in plain English.

Eir's opinion, however, differs to mine and they state that the termination fee is indeed due.

I contacted Comreg and I really should have asked my dog for his opinion as they have just stated that Eir will not refund me.

Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see that I am liable for the termination charge.

Any opinions?

raxy · 27-05-2022 12:44pm

Don't think you are right. Outside the initial period you do not have to pay the termination fee provided you give your 1 months notice.

By not giving notice you are liable for the termination fee.

27-05-2022 12:57pm

My reading of that is the same as your's @podge3. However, how are you moving to the new service provider? Is this a port (e.g. you provided your details to your new provider and they notified Eir), or are you manually closing your Eir account and opening one with the new provider? I would expect the termination charge to apply if you did the latter.

If the former, then (given Eir's standard of customer service) I expect their internal procedures simply don't match up with their policies. You'll get a "computer says no" response for at least the first couple of levels of staff, and you'll have to keep pushing through them to get to somebody who will actually have the power to do anything.

Jim_Hodge · 27-05-2022 1:01pm

Outside the initial period there's no fee IF you give 1 Month's notice. It's fairly clear in that wording.

podge3 · 27-05-2022 2:01pm

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. Its good to get other points of view, which is why I asked the question here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121529#Comment_119121529

Raxy - Maybe I am interpreting the clause incorrectly but it seems straightforward to me i.e. Outside of the Initial Period Customers who wish to terminate for the purposes of changing service provider will not have to pay a termination charge.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121598#Comment_119121598

28064212 - I provided my new details to Vodafone and my service was ported over.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121609#Comment_119121609

Jim_Hodge - Indeed, that is quite clear. I would similarly argue that its quite clear that there is no termination fee if you are moving to another provider as it states this in plain English.

macvin · 27-05-2022 2:12pm

Did you terminate the service or did you have the new provider terminate and transfer the service to them? That's where the difference may lie.

If you rang a service supplier such as Sky or Pure and asked them to provide service to you and they did so and you then yourself did the cancellation with Eir, then the fee applies.

If however you rang sky or pure and said you wanted to transfer your phone service supply to them and they did the transfer and arranged for the eir service to be terminated at the same point in time, no fee applies.

That's how I read it, but its not very clear.

Sky will have nearly the exact same term as will Pure and all the others

raxy · 27-05-2022 2:13pm

Maybe the porting issue changes it, im not sure. your op said you moved. Most providers for broadband/phone require a months notice.

Possibly the issue is with the company you moved to & how they managed it?

I changed mobile providers before & gave them the date I wanted to port to happen. They ported me immediately instead. It was prepay so no fine but I had only topped up & also lost credit that I planned on using up. I complained to the new provider & they refunded my first month.

Maybe worth complaining to your new provider, they might compensate you instead.

podge3 · 27-05-2022 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122019#Comment_119122019

Vodafone did everything, I never contacted Eir.

podge3 · 27-05-2022 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122027#Comment_119122027

I probably should have explained better in my OP. I filled out an application on Vodafone's website to avail of their landline and broadband services. I never contacted Eir.

podge3 · 27-05-2022 7:26pm

I just checked Pure Telecoms Ts & Cs and they have no exit penalty i.e.

clause 6.3 - unless within the minimum term of the agreement, the Customer may cancel this Agreement at any time without penalty. If the Customer wishes to leave Pure Telecom, the Customer must contact the new Access Provider to have applicable servicers (e.g. all calls, line rental and broadband) transferred to the new Access Provider. The Customer will be liable for all charges with Pure Telecom until the new provider has completed this transfer request.

Del2005 · 27-05-2022 8:36pm

The termination fee is different to the rental charges. If you'd cancelled within 12 months you'd of had to pay a termination fee (usually the remainder of your contract cost) and potentiality 1 month as you aren't giving 30 days notice. You are after the 12 months so they are charging you for the months notice you didn't give.

To avoid the charge you should have told Vodafone to port you after 30 days.

source · 28-05-2022 12:50pm

OP you're focusing on the wrong part of the condition.

Eir agrees to accept termination of a Customer’s account outside the Initial Period without the need for one (1) months’ notice in which case the Customer will be obliged to pay to eir a termination charge of one (1) month’s rental in lieu of notice.

Eir agrees to accept your termination outside the initial period (contract) with 1 months notice or 1 months rent in lieu of notice. You're conflating a termination charge for breaking contract with the condition that you pay a months' bill in lieu of notice.

Eir are correct here and you're misreading the condition.

28-05-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125766#Comment_119125766

But why are you ignoring the following clause?

Outside of the Initial Period Customers who wish to terminate for the purposes of changing service provider will not have to pay a termination charge

source · 28-05-2022 3:25pm

Because as I said, op and now you, are both conflating the conditions noted with a termination charge which is a separate thing.

Jim_Hodge · 28-05-2022 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125961#Comment_119125961

That is not a clause. It's a phrase within a clause which must be read in it's entirety. No fee in lieu of a months notice if you're out of contract.

29-05-2022 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126204#Comment_119126204

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126261#Comment_119126261

It's called a termination charge in both parts of the paragraph. Re-phrasing it: "If you don't give a months notice, you must pay a termination charge. If you're changing service provider, you don't have to pay a termination charge". What alternative interpretation is there?

podge3 · 29-05-2022 11:52pm

Thanks again for all the comments.

To those posters who interpret the clause as meaning I do actually owe Eir a termination charge, I am interested in why you think so. I will quote the clause again:

Eir agrees to accept termination of a Customer’s account outside the Initial Period without the need for one (1) months’ notice in which case the Customer will be obliged to pay to eir a termination charge of one (1) month’s rental in lieu of notice. Outside of the Initial Period Customers who wish to terminate for the purposes of changing service provider will not have to pay a termination charge.

This clause is one paragraph with two sentences and refers to termination outside of the contract period. I'm no legal expert but I think the clause must be read in its totality i.e. the second sentence cannot be ignored.

To re-iterate again, I terminated my account with Eir to leave for another service provider so I believe I shouldn't have to pay a termination charge. This is what the second sentence says. I can't see how it could be interpreted in any other way but I am interested if someone could explain how it could be as this appears to be what Eir is doing.

To those who say it could have been how Vodafone closed or moved my connection, Eir are actually claiming that my service wasn't terminated with them for a week after Vodafone say I had ported over and my VF router was installed.

Jim_Hodge · 30-05-2022 8:10am

This will go round in circles. You don't want an interpretation other than your own. But...it's a single clause that states a month's notice in lieu of a fee if outside contract. You can't just strip one sentence out of it out of context. I'll leave it at that because it's pointless repeating the same thing over and over when you don't want to hear it.

podge3 · 30-05-2022 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119133327#Comment_119133327

Thanks Jim.

Actually I do want to hear the alternative interpretation to my own, thats why I'm asking 😉. I don't understand how the second sentence in the clause can be ignored.

podge3 · 30-05-2022 3:35pm

I just got a call from Eir and I will be getting a refund 🤔. I was informed the charge was a mistake and that the clause in the Ts & Cs allowed to move to another provider without a termination charge.

Its actually more of a partial refund i.e.. I was charged one months rental of 46 Euro on the last bill and I was only with Eir for 3 days out of that month so the refund really should be about €40. As I previously mentioned, Eir claim I was with them for about 8 days out of the month so the refund is only €30. I did query this also but the CS rep wasn't going to budge on the date.

I know what date I installed the Vodafone router on but the CS rep said that I could still get Eir broadband with a Vodafone router. Dunno about that....

So anyway, I'm going to leave it at that, a partial victory, I suppose. This matter has already cost me several hours of my time so I'm not going to waste anymore for an additional €10, although the principle is the main reason I pursued it, not the €46.

One last thing, despite my initial claims that Comreg were about as much use as a chocolate teapot, I would not be getting the refund if it wasn't for them. While they were initially very slow to see my point and were on Eir's side, the penny finally dropped and they took up my case with Eir.

Thanks to all those who commented in the thread, I really do appreciate it.

Are Eir breaching their own terms and conditions here?

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