Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

When Saul was created in BB they had no idea how popular he would become and that he'd eventually get his own show.

Now they have created his own spin off they have to make it entertaining and watchable.

I don't think watching a lawyer handle petty crime cases or dealing with paperwork would be good TV.

They've a great job in showing how Saul became what he is in BB and just judge BCS on its own merits and forget about BB.

I think people are saying that from further back, that before the episode or even for the first half of the episode, the idea that Lalo and Howard would even end up in the same room as each other would have seemed ridiculous. The shock/surprise came from how things lead to the ending, but also just the brutality and speed at which Lalo just dismissed Howard like he was nothing, even though we as viewers have been watching him for so long.

I knew/strongly felt that Howard was never getting out of that apartment alive. But I didn't think it was going to be Lalo. I had imagined something like Howard taking out a gun, or Kim picking up a knife or something.

Given the hints the show gave, the viewer knew it not going to end well for Howard.

And like I said to a poster a good few weeks back who was complaining - they wanted less Howard more Cartel. I said it was likely the two would intertwine eventually - be patient etc.

For those who follow the hints closely. There was a vague idea where it was headed. But the drama was in its ‘execution’.

The viewer did not know if Howard would reach breaking point and attack Kim? Would Lalo intervene? Remember when Howard said to Kim - ‘But you…’ I thought he was going to hit her with the bottle at one stage.

The viewer did not know if It would be Kim executed or Howard. Or both? Or would Howard ‘do a Nacho’? I was thinking all these things.

I found the ending very dramatic as the viewer knew trouble was coming - but did not know ‘How..?’ As Jimmy said himself.

Basically because Fring is seen as a outsider by the Cartel. Muscling in on Don Eladio's patch with no proper 'respect'.

Fring is not viewed as one of them, but is tolerated because he is a good earner. Now when you add in his 'lifestyle choice' that was hinted at a few times with his murdered 'Chicken Brother' - the Cartel found plenty of reasons to sneer at Fring.

I know Mike frequently mentioned his granddaughter in Breaking Bad but I thought they never actually showed them.

Was Kerry Condon in it?

I have a Mike question - does he ever take of his jacket? He always has it on when babysitting like he is ready to get out the door.

I had a a very similar thought.

Lalo and the cockroach - he is going to Jimmy

But then Howard turned up and I thought “oh no, Lalo is coming” but during the conversation there is a look on Kim’s face - I can’t quite describe what I thought it was - but for a moment I thought Howard will say something and she will push him or Ock up a bottle.

It only a brief doubt but that is why the scene is so good and the death so shocking. It kept changing what I thought would happen.

Well, have to admit I never got the cockroach reference.

But the apartment scene, the candle first time, I thought for sure it was Lalo, which I'm sure we were meant to think, thus lulling me into a false sense of relief when Howard walked in. But the instant the candle flickered a second time I went " oh no!!". At that very moment, Howard became a witness, there was definitely no way out. Thought the acting was supreme by them all.

I'm starting to come to terms with a very simple fact: in the BCS world, there's no room for sentimentality. They're even turning the screws on Jimmy and Kim, by which I mean, they're chipping away at my sympathy for the pair of them. In a roundabout kind of way, aren't Jimmy and Kim ultimately responsible for the final destruction of Howard. After all, its their machinations that delivered Howard to them that evening, and their willingness to dabble on the dark side with being 'a friend to the cartel' , which put Lalo and Howard in the same room - however unintentionally that was.

There's a lot of loose ends needing to be tied up now. Howard can't simply vanish. Lalo obviously needs Jimmy, but not Kim - except perhaps as a lever. He can't kill Kim, as I'm pretty sure (shouldn't be doing this to myself) that Jimmy would fold if that happened. Kim gets a vacuum cleaner service...

Who'll tidy up the murder scene? Mike and his guys? A trap for Mike? It backfires and bye bye Lalo? But Jimmy thinks Lalo is alive in BB. Thinks.

I'm getting dizzy 😵.

Do we want a happy ending for Jimmy and Kim? I do but I know a lot don't think they deserve one, I think as both have been possibly disappeared and separated for years it could be enough of a punishment for them. The two small teasers released for the second half of the season are interesting

There is no “roundabout way” in Howard’s fate - Jimmy and Kim are 1000% responsible. ;)

Even if Howard didn’t end up dead what the pair did to him was reprehensible. He had done nothing to deserve any of it.

I know that Better Call Saul wasn’t planned during Breaking Bad. I was just wondering if Mike’s family had appeared in speaking roles.

I’m not suggesting that they had Jimmy’s entire life mapped during Breaking Bad. Of course they didn’t - it is a ridiculous notion.

What I was saying is that they must have had a detailed (doesn’t mean everything) backstory where they create incidents to use like someone out to get him. This is the kind of thing writers do on TV shows even if the character isn’t in for the long haul.

The level of detail in Better Call Saul - they aren’t just making random **** up as they go along. Was probably the same on Breaking Bad

A Howard tribute. Credit to the writers and Patrick Fabian for bringing to life a fascinating character

The truth, as is usually the case with internet disagreements, lies somewhere in the middle. My point is that these things are fluid. They plan ahead, but change and adapt as needs be. They might have some ideas for background elements of a character's backstory, but can change it if they need. They might have little to no elements of a small character's history bar what's needed for what they know they're going to put on screen, but as the character develops, they develop a backstory to suit.

Saul was introduced as a small part to act as a go-between and introduction to Fring, because that served Walt's story. As it developed and they liked the character, he became their lawyer. Some hints are made towards his history but only in passing because it didn't serve Walt & Jesse's stories, and lines like about his second wife just because it added to Saul's character. Lines about being worried that Walt & Jesse were sent by Lalo and him trying to blame Ignacio for whatever happened, that was just to show how shady and crooked Saul was behind the veneer of being a lawyer. It all gives hints about the type of person Saul is to build his character in service of Walt & Jesse's story, but any kind of details about what happened with Lalo/Ignacio/his ex-wives wouldn't have been given much thought until it was needed. If for example during Breaking Bad they needed a storyline where someone is after Saul, then they likely would have come up with something involving characters named Lalo and Ignacio. But as it happens, it became useful for BCS instead, and by the end we'll probably have a better idea why Saul said that line in BB (but that's because they're developing BCS to suit the line of dialogue, not because they had any real plans for what it fully meant in BB).

And as another example, Nacho's role in BCS was supposed to be different, he was supposed to essentially be the bad guy of season 1 and regularly come up against Jimmy, but then they decided to have Jimmy fight with his brother more instead and wait on Nacho. But Nacho's role then developed into less of an antagonist and less involved with Jimmy overall.

So what I'm saying is, they're not just making it up as they go along, but nor do they have detailed explanations about small characters backstories. They develop the characters as much as is needed to suit the story and characters at the time, but are adaptable, because even things committed to film aren't always set in stone (like Kaylee's age).

I'm sure you know I'm definitely NOT looking at that video 🤣.

I think Jimmy and Kim are a dangerous combination - to themselves as much as anyone else. I think she's going back to marry a mechanic (didn't she say something like that when talking about her past ? Or was that Hillary Clinton - who remembers that joke??). But Jimmy.... he's been rumbled as Gene in Omaha. That can't bode well. I said, way back, that I wanted redemption for Jimmy. By which I mean he returns to being Jimmy, having paid his debt to society. The more often I say that to myself, the less likely it seems.