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Texas School shooting 19 children and 2 adults murdered

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's all in the aim. Bow hunting is still also popular, and has a bigger season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    or you could have read what I said

    I'm not refuting that it happened, it doesn't do anything to the timeline, which is the issue at hand

    they were trying to say this contradicted what the police were saying happened

    it doesn't

    this is the kind of thing which then adds to confusion, when people read something and can't understand it



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bruh, the police have contradicted what the police have said happened.

    According to police, their own officers snuck into the school to get their own kids extracted, while everyone else was tazed to wait outside for over an hour. According to police, police didn't go in for everyone else's kids because they might get shot.

    There's no confusion here: the police are next to useless to stop mass shootings. One deranged barely 18 man can strike fear in them all with their average 21 weeks of training



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    no according to police they did go in and engage with him, then he locked himself in the room, that is the timeline

    the issue is people getting confused by this

    you have so many people speaking and reporting that what comes out gets somewhat confused in the hours after this happens



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    this reminds me of say a story breaking on twitter and boardies are like RTE is covering this up, it not on the website

    no they are taking the time to fact check before they report it



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You are asking them to break a habit of a lifetime, so don't hold your breath.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Police who arrived at the school retreated when Ramos shot at them, state authorities said Thursday. An hour elapsed before a tactical unit led by federal Border Patrol agents went into a classroom and killed the gunman. The initial response appears to have veered from guidance, widely implemented since the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Colorado, that says officers should pursue shooters inside buildings without waiting for specialized backup.

    Texas authorities on Thursday also retracted a previous claim that an officer had approached and possibly fired at the gunman outside the school, saying that in fact the shooter “walked in undisrupted.” About 10 minutes before Ramos went into the building, authorities said, he opened fire on witnesses by a nearby funeral home, and a 911 caller reported a man carrying a gun.

    How official accounts about the Uvalde shooting have changed

    The amended account of the shootings was offered by Victor Escalon Jr., regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, who said three times that he would “clear up” previous statements. Escalon spoke at a chaotic news conference Thursday afternoon after the appearance in news reports and on social media of the cellphone videos, some of which showed tearful parents pleading with officers in tactical gear — some carrying rifles or Tasers — to go inside the school and tackle the gunman, or allow them to do so themselves.

    Javier Cazares, whose 9-year-old daughter, Jacklyn, was inside the school, said in an interview that he and other men demanded action from police as they huddled by a door to the school. “There were five or six of [us] fathers, hearing the gunshots, and [police officers] were telling us to move back,” Cazares said. “We didn’t care about us. We wanted to storm the building.”

    Cazares later learned Jacklyn had been shot and killed.

    Portraits of the victims of the Uvalde, Texas, school massacre

    Abbott, whose uncompromising pro-gun stances have been sharply criticized by Democrats since the massacre, hailed the swiftness of the police response on Wednesday and praised their tactics.

    “It is a fact that because of their quick response getting on the scene, being able to respond to the gunman and eliminate the gunman, they were able to save lives,” Abbott said at a news conference.

    Escalon defended the police response at Thursday’s news conference, beginning with emotional remarks about the toll taken on law enforcement. “It’s hard to take. It is traumatic. We’re all hurting inside,” he said.

    But after two days in which officials had offered partial and contradictory details of how the shooting unfolded, Escalon’s account also was confusing and unclear at points.

    A police news conference in Uvalde leaves ‘gaps and confusion’

    He said the gunman, who shot his grandmother and fled in a pickup truck, crashed the vehicle at 11:28 a.m. Photographs from the scene show the gray Ford pickup stopped next to broken railings at a ditch-like concrete area beside the western perimeter of the school grounds.

    At 11:30 a.m., police received the first 911 call reporting that a man who had crashed a vehicle was carrying a gun, according to Escalon.

    The NRA has weakened. But gun rights drive the GOP more than ever.

    Escalon said witnesses described the gunman exiting the passenger side of his truck, carrying a rifle and a bag. He opened fire on two people who had walked out of a funeral home across the street, according to Escalon’s telling of the witness accounts. The gunman then walked toward the school, climbed a fence, and shot at the school from a parking lot.

    He appears to have entered the school through a door that was unlocked, Escalon said.

    Texas State Trooper Juan Maldonado, who lives in Uvalde, said he and others entered the school building where the shooting took place and broke windows to rescue children from classrooms.

    "We went in the building, we broke windows, we got kids out,” Maldonado said. He declined to say who was with him or when precisely this took place. He said one of the teachers killed was "like his sister.”

    Officials had previously stated that the gunman was confronted by a school police officer who fired at him. Later, they said the officer had confronted him but did not open fire. Escalon said Thursday that both versions were inaccurate:

    No officer confronted the gunman before he entered the west side of the school at 11:40 a.m., Escalon said, adding “there was not an officer readily available.”

    A Uvalde school district security plan says the fencing around Robb was “designed to limit and/or restrict access to individuals without a need to be on the campus” and that the district operates a “locked classroom door policy” at all times.

    News conference in Uvalde leaves 'gaps and confusion'

    Officers from the Uvalde Police Department and the school district police department arrived four minutes after the gunman entered the school, according to Escalon, who offered unclear statements about how close those officers got to Ramos. Having first said the officers were “inside making entry” and took cover after coming under fire, he then said: “They don’t make entry initially because of the gunfire.”

    Since Columbine in 1999, many police departments have trained officers to go after an attacker as soon as possible, to minimize the number of teachers and children shot. Before then, guidance often emphasized waiting for specially trained officers, such as a SWAT team. The speed and willingness of officers to pursue shooters into buildings has been called into question following other attacks in recent years, including the massacre at a high school in Parkland, Fla., in 2018.

    Uvalde Police Department’s policy on responding to an active shooter is not publicly available, but a sample policy manual offered to local departments by the Texas Police Chiefs Association states: “The first two to five responding officers should form a single team and enter the structure.” The sample manual contains best practices and has been used by more than 100 agencies, according to the association.

    “In any active shooter situation, the protocol is to address the threat. You go at the threat, you go at where the gunfire is at because you’re trying to stop the threat,” Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman Lt. Chris Olivarez said in an interview Thursday.

    What did police do at Uvalde, Texas, school shooting? Here's a timeline

    Katherine Schweit, a retired senior FBI official who started the bureau’s active-shooter program, said officers were taught to immediately neutralize a shooter.

    “Under all circumstances, that is their first priority,” said Schweit, who cautioned that it was still early and that all of the facts were not known yet about the response to the Uvalde shooting. “Even if somebody locks themselves behind a door, we want to go in and get that guy,” she said. And even if a shooter is no longer firing, she said, “anybody with a gun who’s killed people is an active threat until they’re neutralized.”

    According to witnesses and video, there was a substantive police presence outside the school as frantic parents and onlookers gathered.

    Derek Sotelo, who runs a nearby auto shop, said he watched from the funeral home as officers arrived and began clustering around a school entrance that faces a parking lot. “There were a lot of cops surrounding that door,” Sotelo said, adding that he did not know if any of the officers entered.

    At a news conference on Wednesday, Texas DPS chief Steven C. McCraw said that after the gunman opened fire, officers “engage[d] the active shooter and continue[d] to keep him pinned down in that location” until a tactical team could get inside.

    But Escalon on Thursday appeared to play down the notion of ongoing exchanges of fire between the time the gunman entered the fourth-grade classroom and when police confronted him about an hour later. “The majority of the gunfire was in the beginning” of the incident, he said.

    Previously, police spokesmen had said the gunman “barricaded himself inside” the classroom for a period of time, rendering officers unable to get to him.

    Gunman bought two rifles, hundreds of rounds in days before massacre

    Police and public officials have cautioned that their investigation is ongoing and what is known about the shooting may change in coming days and weeks. In the meantime, social media postings and witness interviews have helped reconstruct portions of what happened.

    The school announced on Facebook at 11:43 a.m. that it was locked down due to gunshots in the area. “The students and staff are safe in the building,” it said.

    At that point, the shooter had been inside the school for three minutes, according to the timeline Escalon gave Thursday. One minute after that — at the exact time that Escalon said officers attempted to enter the building and then retreated after being fired at — a resident said in his own Facebook post that there was a shootout in front of the school.

    Some children managed to flee the school at 12 p.m., according to video reviewed by The Washington Post. At 12:06, the school published another alert on the lockdown, again stating: “The students and staff are safe in the buildings.” Eleven minutes after that, however, it updated with a starker message: There was “an active shooter at Robb Elementary. Law enforcement is on site.”

    Rep. Tony Gonzales (R-Tex.), whose district includes Uvalde, said he was told in a briefing that gunfire appeared to halt for a half-hour period after the gunman was barricaded or trapped in the classroom.

    “That’s where there’s kind of a lull in the action,” Gonzales told CNN. “All of it, I understand, lasted about an hour, but this is where there’s kind of a 30-minute lull. They feel as if they’ve got him barricaded in. The rest of the students in the school are now leaving.”

    Citing preliminary information, Escalon on Thursday said that “during the negotiation there wasn’t much gunfire, other than trying to keep the officers at bay.” Authorities had not previously mentioned any negotiations between law enforcement and the gunman, and Escalon did not elaborate.

    Eventually, a tactical team of federal and local officers was put together. Agents from an elite Border Patrol tactical unit led a phalanx into the classroom protected by a ballistic shield. They fired at the gunman, according to two federal law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to provide preliminary details. The gunman fired at the officers as they entered, one official said. During the exchange of fire, the official said, one agent was shot in the foot and grazed in the head.

    Authorities have not said precisely what time the gunman was shot, but Escalon on Thursday said it was approximately one hour after the first responding officers arrived. Uvalde police announced on social media at 1:06 p.m. that the gunman was under the control of law enforcement.

    Slain teacher's husband dies of a heart attack days after the shooting

    Police elsewhere have faced similar scrutiny over their responses to mass shootings. More than a week after 17 people were killed at Parkland in February 2018, officials acknowledged that the Broward County sheriff’s deputy working as a school resource officer remained outside throughout the massacre and failed to confront the attacker.

    Scot Peterson, the former deputy, was charged with child neglect and negligence in 2019. He has said he did not know where the shots were coming from. An arrest affidavit said that he had active-shooter training two years before the Parkland massacre, during which officers were told about the need to respond urgently, because “every time you hear a gunshot in an active shooter incident, you have to believe that is another victim being killed.”

    A state commission investigating the shooting later faulted multiple other officers for not acting quickly enough, saying that several had failed to try to confront the attacker. Several deputies from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office were seen or described taking the time to put on ballistic vests, “sometimes in excess of one minute and in response to hearing gunshots,” the commission said. A half-dozen deputies arrived near the building where the shooting took place, most of them heard gunshots and they “did not immediately move toward the gunshots to confront the shooter,” the report concluded. One sergeant “remained behind his car in a position of personal safety,” the report said.

    After the June 2016 massacre at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, police were criticized for waiting for hours to breach the club’s walls and attack the gunman after they had pursued him earlier inside the building. Police had fired at the shooter before settling into a standoff with him while he remained inside a bathroom with club patrons.

    The then-Orlando police chief defended the agency’s response, saying that the gunman had stopped firing while barricaded inside the bathroom, transforming the scene from an active-shooter into a hostage standoff.

    Tim Craig and Teo Armus in Uvalde, Tex., Joanna Slater in Williamstown, Mass., and Silvia Foster-Frau, Alice Li, Nick Miroff, John Woodrow Cox, Hannah Knowles and Meryl Kornfield in Washington contributed to this report.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    i dont think you have said anything there to change the picture

    other than there is confusion in the unfolding situation, which is natural

    rather than some orchestrated lying



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I cleared the confusion, you whined about it.

    this reminds me of say a story breaking on twitter and boardies are like RTE is covering this up, it not on the website

    no they are taking the time to fact check before they report it

    Another wasted opportunity where you could have just did the same thing I did (post a corroborated timeline to clear up confusion) instead you spent several posts complaining about the state of the thread and others confusion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    zero whining


    you haven't cleared anything up


    you do love a long post though, I'll give you credit for the old copy and pasting, probably a little less rambling than usual



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    you are confused, no doubt I'm not the first to mention it

    stop whining would ya

    I said it was less rambling than your usual posts, that's a compliment



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You can PM me if you feel the need to speak to me in this thread again.



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well it proves that they can protect a man child from guns if they want to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,444 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    He's notoriously paranoid about being assassinated. I remember reading that he has a huge fear of being poisoned too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo



    Hey watch what you are saying about farmers dude.

    You can be save as hell but when operating with large animals in close proximity it can go wrong very quickly.

    ehh what planet are you on where farmers can get overtime ????

    Anyway why not compare fishermen rather than delivery drivers, much more dangerous.

    Or firemen, in particular smoke jumpers or hotshots.

    For their numbers they lose a couple every season and now and again they have huge losses like Yarnell Hill or South Canyon.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    So he eats at McDonalds and drinks Diet Coke?



    Now we're learning the CBP's tactical team arrived rather quickly, but was parked for *over an hour* by the local police because they got the conniption to treat it as a hostage crisis and not a mass shooting.

    Couldn't find a livestream but they're getting creamed at the pulpit today




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Ah but some yanks are a whole different level of bizarre.

    I mean they have given the world some great stuff (well a fair amount of it thanks to brilliant immigrants mind you), but they have also given us flat earthers, creationists, scientologists, etc.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "If I thought it would help, I would apologise." What a **** steaming turd that supposed man is. Or maybe just doesn't want to actually admit any wrongdoing, gotta mind yourself.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,444 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Apparently, he would pick places at random when out on the campaign trail so nobody knew in advance where he would eat next. Not sure how true that is. I'm shocked he's alive and kicking with a functioning heart.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Next up will be the investigation into the Uvalde police department and likely a massive overhaul with some people fired and perhaps convicted. And they'll be replaced. There's prior art to booting entire PD's if they're bad enough.


    All this will happen in parallel with various other school shootings in the US. The summer season is barely started, it's still Spring in Texas and the bluebottles are blooming (or not, I don't really know.)

    Might not be Texas. Might be California, they have more school shootings there. Or wherever, every State has had them.

    Or there'll be a night club rampage, or a movie theatre or a concert (who was going to take out Stephen Paddock in Vegas from the ground? Impossible, he was shooting from high above the concertgoers.)

    But, sure, muh raghts and my AR. You'll peel my cold dead finger from the trigger or some such.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,511 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Give it a day or two (or heck, a few hours) and I'm sure Republicans and the NRA will be falling over themselves to blame the Good Guys with the Guns, not the Guns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Colonel McCraw of the Texas public safety department said the tactical unit gained entry using keys brought to the scene by a janitor. Why was shooting the lock out not an option?




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭One Who Waits...


    Says a lot.

    Apologies if already posted. Haven't read all the posts - too much bickering (as usual).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Obviously lies since its illegal to sell guns to under 18s. The manipulated footage relies on people being dumb enough to not care about seeing the actual exchange of funds. There's also the fact it was a private sale and the boy was in the company of his mother who bought it for him.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We can all read, copy and paste newspaper articles. Thanks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Trump at the NRA conference reading off the names of the murdered children, a gong of a bell after each name.

    Jesus H Mother Flucking Christ

    It's a mad world we live in

    I'm quite a cynical prick, but that genuinely makes me angry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    A disgusting spectacle but would you expect anything else from that piece of shït.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14 GardenLady


    Too true. Frequently shaking my head at a whole bunch of people in this country. It's shaking my head, or having my head explode, or drinking to excess. There is a saying, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."



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