OFFICIAL Buildup Thread - Leinster vs Stade Rochelais Champions Cup Final 28/05/2022

standardg60 · 28-05-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127740#Comment_119127740

It's an Irish thing as you well know

Personally i'm happy for ROG

Dave_The_Sheep · 28-05-2022 8:07pm

Leinster aren't Irish?

Akrasia · 28-05-2022 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127691#Comment_119127691

Yeah. Sure

Clegg · 28-05-2022 8:13pm

There'll be a lot of ugly stuff in Leinsters post match analysis when they're back training next week. Most if it will be technical stuff which we wouldn't notice but the coaches will.

But one of the obvious errors Leinster made, in my view, was not going for the corner when they had a penalty. In finals it's important to take points, but I think we stuck to a gameplan rather than adapt to the flow of the game. Leinsters driving maul was actually excellent and they won at least 3 penalties from that. There was an element if cautiousness that I hadn't seen in other Leinster games this season.

standardg60 · 28-05-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127806#Comment_119127806

Maybe, but you've got to remember that for the last penalty LAR were down to 14, so made sense to take advantage of the full 10

eagle eye · 28-05-2022 8:37pm

Leinster never settled the whole game, never played their normal game.

Congrats to Ronan O'Gara. He did a lot of work to make it as a coach, spending a few years with the Crusaders in New Zealand.

I can't believe how Cullen couldn't get Leinster to do their thing in the second half. They were just nervous the whole game.

I'm a Connacht fan myself but I'll always shout for an Irish team if it's not against us.

I'm gonna have great fun over the next few days destroying Munster fans celebrating this. I'll be calling them all sorts of names, all anti-Ireland names. I'll go on to them about not having a song of their own too and using the Connacht song. 😁

eagle eye · 28-05-2022 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127806#Comment_119127806

When do you ever see the first Leinster player in possession go straight into an opposing player and try set up a ruck. This happened all game and what I normally see from Leinster is trying to stay on their feet.

28-05-2022 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127765#Comment_119127765

La Rochelle have never won any major honours so not really a valid comparison. Most teams haven't built up years of rivalry with them. Everyone is happy for the new kids on the block when they win first time around. When they start dominating that's when the mood changes.

Leinster are among the top teams in Europe for 15 years and have a stranglehold on their league so some people not wanting them to win is much more to be expected than people in France not wanting La Rochelle to win.

eagle eye · 28-05-2022 8:42pm

Any Irishman celebrating an Irish loss to a foreign team is a disgrace in my opinion.

Boscoirl · 28-05-2022 8:45pm

Hard Luck Leinster. More than a few players didn’t have good games today.

(plenty of Irony in this thread btw)

Brief_Lives · 28-05-2022 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127985#Comment_119127985

you don't get out much do you, ever met a Biarritz fan that wants a Bayonne team to win, visa versa?

WASPS and Leicester in the noughties...

its everywhere... its respect too.... but go out and see the sporting world....

StevenToast · 28-05-2022 8:57pm

Im only dipping in to this thread now....apologies if this has already been mentioned...but how in the name of god did Wayne Barnes not put a leinster player in the bin for the last 5-10 minutes???

Persistent penalties on their own line...he didnt even seem to warn them!!

Very nearly cost La Rochelle but thankfully justice was done in the end.....

Burkie1203 · 28-05-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128064#Comment_119128064

For the same reason he didn't YC a LAR player in the first half. Consistency.

KaneToad · 28-05-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127999#Comment_119127999

I think this hits the nail on the head. All players worked hard but several made little impact... O'Brien, Moloney, Porter, Furlong, Dorris, Park, Sexton, Keenan.

Of the remaining players you could only really say Van Der Flier had a good game.

briandebum · 28-05-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127806#Comment_119127806

For me this is the biggest point to come out of the game. Did they get sucked into playing "Cup Final" rugby by taking the 3 points every time? I'm sure there are smarter people than me who know this, but I'd love to know how far along rugby analytics are with regard to when is it correct to take the 3 vs kicking to the corner. In the NFL there are models which tell you whether it's wiser to go for it on 4th down or kick a field goal, surely similar exists in rugby?

Jizique · 28-05-2022 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128020#Comment_119128020

Yeah, Celtic v Rangers, assorted other soccer derbies (not just England), KK v Wex, Galway v Mayo, Falls v Shankill, Russia v Ukraine - no point hating someone unless you can rub their nose in it

errlloyd · 28-05-2022 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128194#Comment_119128194

That's funny because in the nfl they famously take the statistically wrong decision every time.

Dubinusa · 28-05-2022 9:34pm

Leinster didn't deserve to win. Very simple!

Poor performance. But, congratulations to LA Rochelle and ROG. It's kind of a shame ROG couldn't do it for Munster.

Ardillaun · 28-05-2022 9:39pm

Were LAR’s players underestimated? Even in the backs, Ruhle would be a handful for any defence and we’ve seen lots of Danty and Dulin before.

typhoony · 28-05-2022 9:43pm

If Leinster had a Rocky Elsom they would have won that game, I thought the backrow was poor only JVDF fronted up.

abff · 28-05-2022 9:46pm

The Munster-Leinster thing reminds me of the old riddle.

Q. Where in Ireland would you find local fans supporting England?

A. In Tipperary if they were playing against Kilkenny.

I find it difficult to comprehend, as I will always, always support any Irish team against any team from another country (unless they’re playing against Spurs, in which case I plead forgiveness for a lifelong obsession). I can understand fanatical support for the team that you have latched onto; I find it pretty much impossible to understand those people who seem to get more joy out of their rivals doing badly than they do out of their own team doing well.

And when it comes to hoping that an Irish team fails against foreign opposition for no reason other than spite - well, that’s just pathetic in my opinion.

almostover · 28-05-2022 9:47pm

Some weaknesses exposed by LAR today in this game that need to be addressed at an Ireland level. As a Munster fan that's what concerns me most. We're in trouble in the tight 5 heading into a WC year. Granted we're in major trouble in this regard in Munster, especially at hooker and tight head but overall our scrummaging is worrying. That needs shoring up. The jury is still out for me on this Leinster back row too, a back row that is often 1st choice for Ireland. JVdF is top class, by far the best no.7 we have, but I'm not convinced on either Doris or Conan and have never been. Conan more so, have lawyers felt that he has a propensity to go missing in a gritty, niggly game. Its a biased opinion but Gavin Commbes needs game time at no.8 for Ireland. There is no-one like him in the physicality stakes available for selection for Ireland. We have no other tight carrier like that. That was Standers true value to Ireland, the ability to take on sh*tty ball and eke out a few yards. Someone in the back row has to be willing and able to do that. I'd like to see Doris used more at 8, think he could oust Conan there at Leinster and Ireland. My final worry is Sexton, granted he made one poor error today but when he went off Leinster went into their shells. He sets the tempo for the team and keeps the attack on the move, always looking to attack the line. The big worry is that both leinster and Ireland are much lesser teams without him. Like I said, as a Munster fan, today makes me worry about the Irish fortunes at over the next 18 months.

uptherebels · 28-05-2022 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127186#Comment_119127186

Why would you ask me the same question? Outside of Munster v Leinster I don't care if Leinster win or loose.

What is sad, is the need to try and deflect from your own teams shortcomings. You need to stop worrying about Munster and dry the eyes.

We all support shitbox teams now unless you are a LR supporter.

CptMonkey · 28-05-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128405#Comment_119128405

I’m very worried about the Irish scrum. A lot of the pack comes from Leinster and they came off second best against a bigger pack. The front row in Munster isn’t up to much either. Could cause issues on tour. Hard to win without a scrum.

We badly need a replacement for sexton too. Both Leinster and Ireland rely on him too much

AbusesToilets · 28-05-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128405#Comment_119128405

I'd like to see Coombes come on, but he had to warrant it with his play. Farrell obviously doesn't feel he has yet, and I think Munster players in general are struggling because their handling and attacking skills are deficient currently.

fryup · 28-05-2022 10:01pm

i was shouting for La Rochelle had no qualms about it, they were the underdogs, on the day they were the better team, scored 3 tries to nil and of course the ROG factor

Très bien 😎

Clegg · 28-05-2022 10:13pm

Don't have any issues with Doris. He's a fantastic player and was neck and neck with VDF as Leinsters best player for this season. He's world class. Conan hasn't hit the same heights as last season though. He's a fine player, but to me he's not playing with the same accuracy that got him into the Lions test XV.

At the end of the day, I don't think a lack of power was Leinsters undoing. They weren't overwhelmed by La Rochelle. The latter may have had an advantage there, but it wasn't a huge one. The bigger issue was the poor decision making in attack and lack of accuracy.

VayNiice · 28-05-2022 10:14pm

Out of interest, for the people supporting La Rochelle today (or "anyone but leinster")

- will you be supporting Ireland if 13 of the starters are from leinster + Beirne and Conway who are Leinster born and bred?

Or will there be the cliche comments about "a minute silence in brown Thomas" if Ireland lose to NZ this summer?

I understand being happy for ROG and Ryan, but to be getting satisfaction out of Leinster losing is just petty.

Dave_The_Sheep · 28-05-2022 10:25pm

As always, amazing how many people come out of the woodwork after a loss who you never hear from from one end of the year to the next.

Pussyhands · 28-05-2022 10:30pm

According to this thread, you are a disgrace if you don't support a team from your own country if they're playing a team from another country.

How many Barca fans were supporting Madrid tonight?

And I find it funny that people are complaining about "munster" fans being happy Leinster lost yet these same people are insulting Munster in the same comment...."Munster are viewed as an easy 5 points"....."when did Munster last win it?"

shootermacg · 28-05-2022 10:32pm

These goys know how to party:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAJL7ZXfRg&ab_channel=HeinekenChampionsCup%26EPCRChallengeCup

MrTea · 28-05-2022 10:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128194#Comment_119128194

There are loads of analytics and data, increasingly so. But it's not NFL and data can only tell you part of a picture, not the whole thing. Rugby players and coaches generally have a philosophy of 'feel' and trusting their players to make those calls on the day. It's easy to say 'kicking the points was wrong' in hindsight, but there are likely many factors contributing to losing and they were 60 seconds away from winning, at which point many of us would be saying 'Cup rugby, take your points, Leinster know how to win etc'.

It's simple in ways, they lost because LaR won.

shootermacg · 28-05-2022 10:45pm

How many times will we put Leinster up against teams like France and expect to win? 4,5,6,8 didn't effect anything. You can't expect Leinster to play international rugby with a bunch of journeymen. Too many forwards dining out on the back of a very good front row. Zero turnover or counter ruck threat.

Leinster are like an illusion, if you allow them fast ball and 1 man clear-outs they'll do well. Unfortunately, top teams don't sit back and allow you to play.

Hopefully Ireland come up with a better game plan before the world cup because it's looking like another QF exit. Throw in some shooters, contest the ruck , keep the ball and Leinster have nothing.

Clegg · 28-05-2022 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128568#Comment_119128568

Tbf it's also a few of the older Munster posters too. Like the above.

Dubinusa · 28-05-2022 10:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128634#Comment_119128634

Easier said than done! Not many sides can accomplish this. It's important to realize that La Rochelle are loaded tith foreign players. Leinster are going in with mostly homegrown players. La Rochelle have top quality throughout the pack. Aldritt is world class, Skelton too and perhaps Antonio? How many teams can boast that? Prison isn't too bad either.

Must love hardship · 28-05-2022 10:56pm

Will be a sore loss for many Leinster players.

Hopefully they can go one step further next year.

I'm still not convinced about JGP. He has improved this year but id actually prefer mcgrath in there when the going gets tough... he is more of a leader..

I wonder does munsters crowley look back with regret for not joining la rochelle when he had the chance..

It's a pity frawley didn't see game time today. I think leinster maybe got that bench call wrong especially with Lowe carrying a knock.. Larmour coming in there with 15 on the clock when the big lads were tiring might have been a smarter call..

O gara used his bench better. All his subs bar 1 got at least 12 minutes to make an impact.. 3 of leinsters bench got less than 5 minutes..

Very easy say that this evening.. but you have to bring on the "finishers" to get an impact from the..

Fair play to Ronan O'Gara. I can't wait to see him back in Ireland at some point in his career.. hopefully after the next world cup.

VayNiice · 28-05-2022 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128662#Comment_119128662

That's it exactly. It's easier for France to put together a monster pack when they have so many un capped southern hemisphere players who have opted to play in France.

Atonio and Willemse make up 290kg of the French pack. How likely are you to find a lad in Michaels or Pres Cork who will reach 150kg to match this?

ujjjjjjjjj · 28-05-2022 11:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127806#Comment_119127806

Spot on post.....overly cautious, needed like v Toulouse to throw caution to the wind. Finals do this to most teams, just disappointing it backfired on us today. We got away with in Bilbao in 2018, today we didn't.

shootermacg · 28-05-2022 11:06pm

Look at Ryan: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636911310533296130/980244743537717268/Skelton.mp4

28-05-2022 11:18pm

Keenan - real day at the office to forget for him

eagle eye · 29-05-2022 1:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128020#Comment_119128020

I get out plenty. I ignore idiots who shout against teams from their own country against foreign teams. Well I ignore them unless I know them in which case I'll give them a hard time about it.

You are not a real Irishman if you shout for foreign teams against teams from your own country. It's like soccer shite. Disgraceful.

eagle eye · 29-05-2022 1:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128583#Comment_119128583

Well I'm the one who said anybody shouting against an Irish team is a disgrace.

I'd shout for Munster against a foreign team. I'd shout for Ulster against a foreign team too. In my first post match comment I said I was delighted for ROG and mentioned all the hard work he put in, including a couple of years in New Zealand with Crusaders, to make it as a coach.

I'm a Connacht fan btw.

Neil3030 · 29-05-2022 1:27am

I wouldn't mind Leinster taking the points as they did.

However I'd be livid at the 10 points handed to La Rochelle from terrible exits from their 22.

Dubinusa · 29-05-2022 1:37am

After watching again. It's a case of La Rochelle outplayed us, out managed us or.... we were poor. It's a mix of all 3.

It's okay to critique Leinster and the performance. We were poor! The pack was poor except for VDF and Ryan. The wings were a non factor and the backline in general was poor.

At this stage of Porters journey back to loosehead, I would say it's been fairly drab. He's not the same player. It will take longer, I suppose.

I think RB really fecked himself as far as a national call up goes. He was immensely poor. Hesitant, poor hands and really not able to do anything to alter the outcome.

I think Conan and Doris were both poor.

Dulin was the best player on the pitch, imo. He was terrific.

This will be a tough one to climb out of the mire. We didn't fire a shot!

cuttingtimber22 · 29-05-2022 7:37am

As a Munster fan, I was sorry to see Leinster lose (some really decent players and people in that team). It was not your day.

As a rugby supporter, I was pleased for ROG (nice scenes with family in the stands afterwards) and it is good for the competition that was a new winner.

cuttingtimber22 · 29-05-2022 7:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127217#Comment_119127217

Mike Haley has been excellent for the last two seasons. Scored and assisted a fair few tries, good positioning and defence, and overall a fine footballer. Keegan is the number one Irish 15 but Haley would do a good job if called.

abff · 29-05-2022 8:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128903#Comment_119128903

And I’m the one who kicked off the whole debate on this issue by commenting on the Munster fan who was interviewed on the 9 o’clock news on RTE.

I agree 100% that any Irish fan who cheers for a foreign team against an Irish team out of spite/jealousy is a disgrace. Some people have responded by pointing out that English and French rugby fans will often root for teams that are playing against their fierce local rivals.

And that may be true, but do we really want to be like the English and the French in that regard? We’re a small country and most Irish sports fans will cheer for any Irish sports team or individual that is performing well on an international stage. It’s part of who we are. And to do otherwise is just wrong.

fryup · 29-05-2022 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129104#Comment_119129104

missed that, and what did that munster fan say?

cuttingtimber22 · 29-05-2022 8:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129109#Comment_119129109

Said he was supporting La Rochelle because of the ROG connection.

fryup · 29-05-2022 8:08am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and is that wrong?

OFFICIAL Buildup Thread - Leinster vs Stade Rochelais Champions Cup Final 28/05/2022

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