Sweden avoiding lockdown

Tegnell said that when they were chasing herd immunity, not when they were vaccinating as far as I recall.

Actually we can say for the Nordic countries that for the two waves in 2020 when Sweden was chasing herd immunity the waves peaked at the same time. Eurostat`s monthly figures show that with the percentages of excess deaths for each country for those months, and that shows clearly for anyone that wishes to see, that compared to the other three countries that used lockdown, Sweden`s excess deaths were multiples of the others.

Sweden compared to other countries according to WHO. Looks like they got things about right. Better than most of the EU and they didn't overdo it like China or Australia who actually had negative excess deaths.

Interesting also to see that India which had, at one point, the worlds strictest lockdown, did worse than Brazil who were roundly criticized for not being strict enough. Nobody is criticizing India even though their policies resulted in more deaths.

They were about mid-table by the end of 2020. But remember that the pandemic was still ongoing into 2021 with Zero-covid countries like Australia imposing lockdowns. China, where the virus originated, is still imposing lockdowns.

Critics of Sweden need to be highly selective about timescales in order to show Sweden in a bad light and even then Sweden appears as mid-range by EU standards. On broader timescales, which allows for problems caused by restrictions themselves on the negative side, and the development of natural immunity on the positive side, to be taken into consideration, Sweden comes out near the bottom of the EU for excess deaths.

Sweden is fifth from the bottom on this chart.

In fairness, being fifth from the bottom in the EU does indeed show them in a good light. If the critics of Sweden had been correct that Sweden's policie of keeping things open would lead to untold deaths then they would be much higher excess deaths to date. But that is not the case. They are nowhere near average let alone the top of the table.

You are just going back to the "why Sweden should not be compared to it`s neighbours" arguement.

The Economist report showed that regionally for Europe Covid was more severe in terms of deaths traveling east to west and noted that for their region when it came to Covid deaths Sweden were the exception.

On that chart !

If you look at Europe as a whole including Norway and UK you get a much clearer picture . They are average overall and it is largely down to changing tack in late 2020 and their good neighbours who kept numbers down in that part of Europe .

They were doing very badly on all Europe charts in 2020 ...

Yes ...they pulled up their overall numbers by imposing restrictions in 2021 ! That's what we have been saying...

I notice you still haven't shown how they did just for 2020 when they had higher excess deaths ?

And that graph leaves out so many countries, including Ireland . They are not even among the best in that edited version there , not a complete picture at all of the full list of OECD so you cannot extrapolate that Sweden " is eight from the bottom if all are not included ..and they are still after two years ranked close to average , not " better than average " .

Ireland is better than average! Where are we listed there ?

What is needed is a complete world or OECD graph for 2020 then compare with 2021 ?

Think I have one somewhere .....I will try to post it .

This is still incomplete as they are going on data supplied in 2020 but would give you an idea if what we have been saying about Sweden when they didn't impose restrictions and how badly they were doing.

See how they are near the top of chart there ?

But yes , by imposing restrictions when it was clear how badly they were doing they rowed it back in 2021 greatly which improved their average no end , as you showed in your previous graph . Restrictions and then vaccinations .

The very fact that people need to be squeezing numbers and graphs this way or that way or have a debate on who compare Sweden to or not to just to 'prove' that Sweden's way was some sort of reckless suicidal lunacy says it all. These people are missing the point spectacularly. They will not prove a point by finding a percentage point or two here or there which they can't find even. They have to find orders of magnitude or at least factors. But of course thats not there to be found. They might as well be looking for corona on the moon. But they can't let go.

Its the very people who not only fell hook line and sinker for the corona madness but were their most aggressive advocates. Now they are clutching at straws to discredit the country that is living proof that all of this was pointless idiocy and that they've been had. Of course they are. There is even a recognised condition/term for this behaviour.

There is this somewhat famous example of When Prophecy Fails. Basically some UFO believers cult prophecy about apocalypse brought on by aliens and they campaigned and 'informed' and prayed and whatnot. Then the UFOs didnt come and the apocalypse never happened. But they were so invested in their belief they couldn't conclude that they were wrong. So they concluded that their prayers turned the UFOs away and prevented the apocalypse.

Cognitive dissonance its called.

Very true. There's a psychological phenomenon too where people, when evidence starts coming in that they are wrong, strengthen their false belief rather than abandon it.

Good post Calamari . It quite neatly applies to both sides of the argument , as written, I presume intentional on your part ( or else it's not so clever !)

@Bit cynical what Charlie said is true . The Economist did find that Sweden was the worst in the Western EU that many Eastern Europe countries did poorly despite lockdown also .

Why you don't ever discuss the reasons why ?

Sweden is an outlier among countries in Western Europe , especially its neighbours and Ireland , and along with the UK which has a higher excess death rate even .

Ireland did very well by any league table but you guys refuse to admit that .

Yet you and others accuse me and others of being selective asking for data per year .

Sweden did better in 2021 that it pulled back from a final tally that would have put UK in the shade . Why ?

I am not going to produce any more data for people who refuse to read and crucially , understand it .

Enough has been produced over the course of the last month never mind the thread that proves that you and your fellow posters are like a gaggle of ostriches .

Even Tegnell himself now admits more should have been done in 2020 to prevent spread and deaths .