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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    A lot of the Putin shills don't seem very bright. A recurring theme among a lot of the far right and the extreme left is that they are mostly thick and see things in very black and white terms and without nuance (watch how they interact when challenged on social media....they can't really debate properly and resort to slogans and soundbites).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭Field east


    I found that army guy reporting on how the Russians are treating the 2750 odd ‘Nazi ‘ prisoners very amusing - 3 very good quality meals a day, injured being well looked after in good quality hospitals, etc, etc, etc.

    so , when we reflect back on Putin , et al, saying that these prisoners are scum, rats, no regard for life, traitors, nazis of the worst kind , etc, etc, etc I am failing to see why they are not getting the same treatment or equivalent that has been dished out to those Russians that Putin uses to eliminate his ‘opposition ‘living overseas - in the UK



  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Of course prisoners-and civilians-who didn't pass ''filtration'' are being treated very differently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭amandstu


    I wish the very best on those POWs whatever the attendant circumstances

    Their resistance was heroic and vital for the survival of their country


    I am very fearful that their present situation is probably truly horrific (along with that of all others affected by this Russian regime)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Any one rowing back on their statements from the early weeks of the war that Russians military was weak, getting hammered?

    Ukraine are still asking for more and more weapons despite the tens of billions already given to them. Russian army can't have been as weak as said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    As for the previous page with the seemingly anti Germany/France eastern europeans....could you blame them if they were?

    Germany wouldn't give up Russian gas because of the damage it would do to their economy so then the EU wants to ban Russian oil despite it having the same effect on some eastern european countries.

    And then you have Macron calling the Polish PM a a far right anti semite.




  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Sourced and documented certainly sounds impressive and immediately makes you think they're as pure as a christian forensic accountant but when you actually look into their "evidence" and click the links you're confronted with grainy photos of tanks with no markings that they claim are Russian but are more likely to be Ukrainian.

    Take the first section in the listing of the alleged Russian losses on the Oryx website, the T64 tank. There are twenty links of mostly grainy photos in which the ones with Z markings could easily have been photoshopped. The tanks with close up images have no Z markings and could easily be Ukrainian since they have over 1,200 of them. There is no metadata whatsoever accompanying the links. No geotag or source info whatsoever. I'm happy to be disproven here and would be grateful for anyone being able to point me to the metadata of the links on the website but it seems to me that we simply have to believe that they have "sourced and documented" but we can't cross check this as they provide no details of said documentation.

    The Russians no longer use these T64 tanks but the DPR/LPR have 112 according to wikipedia. As mentioned above the Ukraine forces have well over 1,200 of the tanks. What do you think the probability is of these destroyed tanks actually being Ukrainian and not Russian considering these numbers and the distinct lack of metadata?

    We are currently living a through a time in this world where the supposedly reputable Guardian newspaper can include an interview and a video clip of one of the Mariupol civilian evacuees talking about what life under the steel plant was like but edited out the most important part of her testimony where she said the Asov battalion kept them prisoner in order to use them as human shields and would not allow any civilians to avail of the humanitarian corridors.

    If the Guardian is twisting the truth to this extent imagine what a National Endowment for Democracy affiliated source like Oryx is doing in order to create false narratives. 



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    I will take your opportunity to review what I said from before the war started and see if my opinions have changed:

    My primary view - i.e. that threatening invasion was the high point for Putin and that any actual invasion, no matter how it went, would put him in a worse position is still my view, but with a few additional factors. I did not anticipate the level of unanimity amongst NATO members nor the level to which the UN would condemn Russia. The international response has been far greater than I had expected. It has also filtered through to broad sections of society who had previously shown little interest in Ukranian affairs. I definitely did not even countenance the possibility of Sweden and Finland joining NATO.

    In relation to Donbas, although I didn't specifically address the tactical situation in point 1 above, I thought it would have been so obvious that Russia would take over Donbas in a week or so that I didn't even consider it worthy of mentioning. I got that one completely wrong of course - three months in and the only significant settlement in Donbas that has fallen to the Russians is Mariupol, which they substantially destroyed in the process. I seriously underestimated the Ukrainian army's ability to hold the line here.

    In terms of the attack on Kyiv I stand by my views at 2. above that they could try to take the capital but they would find it very difficult. I didn't realise quite how badly they would fare logistically in this front, but the 40km line of tanks was a real sign of weakness. It's also laughable that Russia is now trying to pretend that this was a feint or a way to hold up the Ukrainian forces. If that was genuinely their plan, they would have achieved it more effectively and without so many casualties by either remaining poised at the Belarus/Ukraine border (thus typing up Ukranian troops in anticipation of a further front opening up) or by means of limited incursions into easily defensible positions. These are the traditional methods of carrying out a blocking operation. Sending large amounts of troops to try to capture built up areas and threatening to assassinate the president is such an incompetent way of doing it that it is not capable of belief. Russia have shown themselves to be incompetent, but not that incompetent. It is clear that they are lying to save face regarding the Kyiv front.

    On point 3., again while I didn't state it I thought it was fairly clear that the Russians should be able to take up to the Dniper without too much difficulty militarily, and the problem they would have is holding that territory. If and when they manage to achieve this in 2 or 3 years time at this rate, I will reassess my view as to whether they have the capacity to hold the area in the face of strong Ukrainian insurgency.

    On 4., I have somewhat modified my views. I suspected that only part of the Russian army had meanginfully modernised, whereas it seems that almost all of the Russian army is still stuck in the past, albeit much smaller and better paid. They still have command and control issues, an utter lack of modern communications, I don't think it's accurate to say that they have logistical problems because that would imply that they have any logistics at all, and their morale is still that of a conscript army, even if they are technically contract soldiers.

    In terms of the tanks and Javelins, I perhaps underestimated the Ukrainians on this front and they have been massively successful. Ordinarily Russia would now be using the firm soil of the summer to conduct flanking maneuvers, but they have lost an awful lot of tanks and IFV/APCs. Those vehicles they have left are not worth risking against a Ukranian Territorial force which has shown itself to be more than capable of small unit anti-tank tactics. The Ukrainian comms and command is superb due to what has been described as an Uber for anti tank units, and I would imagine that they will be offering this technology to other countries before long.

    On the airforce, I expected them to be a bit better. I had assumed they would carry out a successful SEAD operation, but they were only partially successful. To be fair to them, they are relying on the old Soviet doctrine that the air force is intended for support of the army and for defence against aerial attacks. They were not intended to achieve air superiority over a large enemy territory. And as for the Navy, well they have always been neglected and, whether the Moskva sank due to a neptune getting through the defences or because of a fire on boards, it is clear that they are not up to snuff.

    Obviously I was completely wrong about Putin being very smart and wanting to prolong the state of uncertainty that he had created to obtain concessions. I fully accept I was wrong on that front, and I also thought it might have been possible that he would have got concessions (although it is somewhat speculative to say that he would have).

    As for Ukraine asking for more weapons, so are Russia. They've been asking China for assistance and they are also trying to bring old tanks back into service. This is perfectly normal for a prolonged conflict. Indeed, the Soviet Union was asking for help from the other Allies right up to 1945, so there is nothing wrong with that. I'm also not sure that it is accurate to say that 10s of billions of military aid has already been given. Certainly several billion have been given to date. But I'm not sure that the 40 odd billion USD promised in the lend lease bill have manifested in Ukraine as of yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Kiev is 8 times the land size of Paris. There was no way they could occupy a city with 3 million hostile people of that size which is why Kiev was largely unscathed compared to the South and East. Remember Putin was around as a young man when Russia invaded Afghanistan and realised how impossible it is to occupy a country with a hostile population.

    If they wanted to seriously take Kiev it would look like Mariupol does now. All they want is the South and East and they are well on their way to achieving that goal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    It is interesting that the reports that the Russians were running out of bombs a month ago have petered out with the Donbass advancement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Tens of billions have not been given to them. A lot has been pledged to them. That have received a lot and more on the way but they have not got yet most that they were promised. Also, disturbing than the 40 billion promised by the US is not specifically for Ukraine so who knows what will happen to that.

    Russia is very weak, Ukraine will defeat them if the west want them to and give them the required support.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Ukraine with help from the US has spent the last 8 years heavily fortifying a line of defense all along the east of the Donbass. That line has now been breached and the Russians will take their time creating cauldron after cauldron until they achieve their goals. They are battle hardened from their success in Syria which increasingly looks like it was a training exercise for this conflict. Whereas the Ukrainians though fighting for a worthy cause and not for money like the Russian soldiers don't seem to know how to fight this kind of war.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Advancing 2km per day is not the sign of a particularly successful offensive. Nor can the Russians maintain their loss rate indefinitely.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Your argument isn't really logical. It's inductive reasoning based on the idea that the Russians can't make mistakes. That is to say, when you are presented with the fact that the Russians could not have succeeded in taking Kyiv, your conclusion is that they must have intended to fail. You haven't considered the far more likely analysis, which is that they seriously underestimated the Ukrainians and believed that they could take Kyiv with minimal resistance. Putin said himself of his "special military operation" that "Its goal is to protect people who have been subjected to abuse and genocide by the regime in Kyiv for eight years". Now, you could I suppose say that this was also part of the feint, but it seems obvious that his plan was regieme change in Kyiv.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/putins-speech-declaring-war-on-ukraine-translated-excerpts

    The reason why they did not take Kyiv is that they would not have been capable of doing so while keeping the Russian army intact. They might have destroyed a large part of it, but they would have destroyed their army in the process. And they are incapable of holding it.

    Reports were that they were running out of precision bombs which were capable of being used without GPS (which they were blocked from). Have they gotten more of these or established their own GPS network since then that I haven't heard?

    Regarding conventional explosives i.e. dumb bombs, they have loads of these. It is the primary reason why their attacks are so savage - they are indiscriminately blanket bombing areas because they lack the ability to carry out precision strikes on military targets.

    Both Ukraine and Russia withdrew heavy equipment from the area in accordance with Minsk II. They are taking their time and they are advancing, there is no doubt about that. But, and it's a big but, this is primarily because they have shown themselves incapable of advancing any faster without causing serious problems for themselves. They are advancing a few kilometers a day and calling it victory. At this rate, it would take them a year to reach the Dniper. And that is assuming that they do proceed at that pace and the Ukrainians dont carry out any counteroffensives or hold them up on some fronts, as they routinely do.

    The Russian doctrine seems to be similar to the Soviet one in WWII. Attack on multiple fronts and, whereever you succeed, concentrate there. So when you hear of them succeeding in one area, you don't hear about the other areas where their attacks failed.

    I don't know what the basis of you suggesting that the Ukrainians don't know how to fight this kind of war comes from. Considering that they are outnumbered on paper by a factor of at least 3 or 4 to 1 and sometimes 10 to 1, it is obvious that the Ukrainians are punching above their weight and Russia are punching below theirs, except that when Russia is 3 times the size, they still have the advantage.

    To borrow a phrase, the Russian strategy is to send wave after wave of their troops and bombs until they advance. Not a particularly skillful strategy, but it is currently working for them, after 3 months of heavy losses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    It took them over a year to take Aleppo. But they took it eventually. Its how they wage war.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    They were not facing anything like similar opposition and absolutely cannot maintain this level of loss for a year. Their army will be completely combat ineffective unless there is a drastic change and a breakout.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    It took nearly 4 years to take Aleppo. If that is how Russia wage war then we can expect them to be at Dnipro in 2050



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Pretty sure that's exactly what everyone in the western media said would happen in Syria and it didn't. Time will tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭Field east


    The war in Syria is/was a completely different war to theUKR one

    (1) from what I know there were very few RU soldiers on the ground and those that were on the ground were not in direct combat

    (2) Russian bomber planes were the weapons of choice

    (3) the opposition had little or no means of shooting down these planes

    (4) Ru was invited in by the Syrian gov so it had a VERY SOLID partner on the ground

    (5) there was little or no fear of reprisals from the Syrian ‘opposition’ as Russia was the ‘proverbial ‘ miles away - except for a type of jihad/subside bombers. But this ‘option’ has so far not been ‘taken up’. Maybe the Ukarianins should have a chat with the Syrian opposition and ‘work something out’!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I don't recall that but admit I didn't follow it much at the time.

    My surface impression of reporting of it was that Assad was deemed to be saved/safe & the "rebels" etc. had had it once Russia got deeply involved in shoring up his regime. US were never likely to get militarily involved themsleves trying to remove him - even if they did act in Syria to an extent in the end for other reasons [ISIS].

    Anyway it is hardly comparable to this war, and wouldn't seem to give much of a guide as to how this will all end up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    if there was no Russian plan to take Kyiv, why were slightly confused Russian police units literally wandering around Kyiv on day #1 of the war?

    Were they there on holiday? Did their GPS give them wrong directions?

    Also why did Putin jail the FSB guy who gave him advice on how easy it would be to take Ukraine? Are you suggesting Putin jails underlings who do their job well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    I'm no military man but I would imagine the Russian soldiers would probably not have been told that their mission would be a decoy in case it got leaked.

    Its more likely General Beseda was blamed and jailed for leaking Russian war plans as the US had way too much intel before the invasion. Your reason just fits the western narrative better. Truth is no one really knows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Loathe the West but can't support Putin directly anymore? Follow the below easy steps to dumpster fire the thread.

    1. Create new account.
    2. Insert contrarian quips disguised as questions. Use the following templates: "Western media was reporting something, but it isn't, what's going on?", "The West said this thing but it has happened, why?" "I thought the Ukrainian army was winning, what's happening?"
    3. Play the "both sides" fallacy as often as possible. Yes Russia is bad, but their opponents are just as bad.
    4. Obfuscate and attack facts by claiming we "can't really know what's going on" therefore anything could be true. So lending equal weight to complete propaganda.
    5. Rinse, repeat :)




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Please provide literally a single reference to "western media" saying this about Syria.

    Also if the Russians idea of a diversion involves getting thousands of soldiers killed, hundred of pieces of armour destroyed and several generals killed then they are idiots.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As much as I like to run down the Yanks when I can, they've been warning for decades about depending on Russia. While there may be a longer game in there as well that policy seemed to be a positive for EU integration.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Not commenting on people posting here, but disinformation is a key feature of the army of Putin bots / supporters on social media. They flood the threads about Ukraine with claims and counter claims about 'both sides' and 'fake news' with the specific intention of trying to totally confuse people. It's fascinating to watch them in action : they might have 150 followers, but often when you check out their profile, you discover the account has sent out something like 30,000 tweets and retweets in a short period of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Are you saying that you have not come upon that on this thread?


    I ask because I have heard so much about those bots but have never seen one myself -or examples in the public arena(well I only post on sites like these,never on twitter or facebook which may be where you are talking about)


    Without wanting to be sceptical I must have heard the description of these bots scores of times but have never come upon one in the flesh ,as it were.


    I do understand how this "blaming both sides " and "how can we know?" seems dishonest and disingenuous and those posters don"t need to be bots to pollute the thread in that way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It can be difficult to tell what is a bot and what is an actual Putin / Russia supporter. There are lots of far right and extreme left types on social media pushing the Russian narrative and retweeting stories that are favourable to Russia - very possible that they are real people and are mainly driven by their hatred for the West, NATO, the EU, the US (but not their fellow extremist Trump) etc (I guess their reasoning is that if Putin hates all of those, then he must be one of the good guys).

    The ones that are the bots are probably those with huge tweet totals....sometimes 30k, 40k, 50k tweets and retweets, mostly of pro-Russian and anti-western propaganda. Clearly some sort of an agenda at work there and an attempt to flood social media discussion threads with lies and misinformation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    They were Russian police - not soldiers - Russian police wandering around Kyiv & doing so on day #1 - hundreds of kms ahead of the Russian army.

    Aside from the fact that losing 20% of your committed forces on a feint (remember the one 65km long convoy of vehicles alone?) certainly shows serious commitment to feinting , sending guys whose only job it is to "keep the peace" after you take over - and to have them arrive alone on day #1 in advance of their army to make it look like you are the world's most incompetent & disorganized army in world history shows a level of commitment to making that feint one that only the most gullible could believe was a feint is certainly a novel strategy - I think we can agree on that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Reports were that they were running out of precision bombs which were capable of being used without GPS (which they were blocked from). Have they gotten more of these or established their own GPS network since then that I haven't heard?

    The Russians have had their own version of GPS known as GLONASS for decades. It has been comparable to GPS in coverage for at least a decade or more. Very unlikely that their own precision munitions would use GPS instead of their own GLONASS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,176 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Would that be acceptable in your eyes then Timmy that for the €36m fighter a GLONASS receiver is an optional add on?

    An improvement since the Syrian days when they were using insecure western GPS.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/russian-pilots-in-ukraine-using-insecure-non-military-navigation-equipment-uk-defence-secretary/148656.article



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    "Would that be acceptable in your eyes" - acceptable how? Do you think I'm Putin in disguise and am in disapproval over the state of the Ru air force?

    I dont care - just pointing out that a lack of precision munitions due to a banning from using GPS is absurd. Either they are using insecure western GPS (which means they arent banned otherwise why use it) or they are banned and have their own GLONASS to make use of. That all their precision munitions are halted due to a GPS "embargo" is silly though



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen



    Can't think of a cogent argument as a response to someone posing uncomfortable questions?

    1) Write a sarky insulting post that tries to portray said poster as a contrarian obfuscator.

    2) Receive multiple thumbs up from the other members of the Russophobic echo chamber.

    3) Hope said poster goes away so that everyone can go back to affirming each others simplistic "Russia is losing/evil/incompetent" & "Ukraine is winning/Asov fighters are heroes" comments.

    4) Get angry when they don't. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    I can't find any reference to these policemen you describe in any search. Can you put up a link perhaps?

    And also if you have evidence that they lost 20% of their forces that doesn't involve the NED affiliated Oryx Opensource intelligence "photo's" or the Ukrainian Publicity department's crazy number shouting people that would be handy also.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    As per my post, they are running out of precision munitions that can be used without GPS. Not that being banned from GPS halts their precision guided munitions. The fact that the Russians have been using GPS in Syria is well documented. They also use western parts for their guided bombs, something which sanctions seems to have impacted a lot more.

    But the key point of my post - they are no longer able to deploy significant numbers of precision munitions, and that was what was reported. It was not reported that the Russians were running out of dumb munitions, as the other poster was suggesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Can you send on a link about Russians being banned from GPS?

    I cant find any confirmation on it, also logistically the only way it could work it block on a geographic level which would block large swathes of Ukraine from having GPS used for anyone (Russian or Ukrainian). AFAIK GPS cannot be blocked based on the user device.

    Only mentions of Russian and GPS I can find are those about Russians themselves blocking GPS in Ukraine - which if its the case, implies they were never very reliant on use of GPS in the first place - likely preferring GLONASS or LORAN as you mentioned in your posts.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    GPS used to have a 'wobble' on it for casual users that reduced the precision obtainable, but military users could get a precise location using their decoders. The wobble was removed some time ago.

    I assume it would possible to reintroduce that wobble for the Ukraine region so non-certified (military) users get poor precision.

    Edit: May 2000, the USA ended the wobble.

    https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Definitely possible - but that would impact Ukrainians too. While I'm sure some of them have nice military GPS gear, many will not.

    But besides that, there seem to be widespread reports of Russians jamming GPS starting in early March - if part of their doctrine is to jam GPS, surely they wouldnt be overly reliant on it themselves?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, the Ru were jamming the frequency used by drones, but the Ukrainians waited till the Ru put their own drones up, and then put their up and ... well, then did whatever they were doing with them.

    Jamming effects both sides.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Perhaps the pressure by the Russians near Severodonetsk is to draw Ukrainian forces into the battle there and hen close from the sides trapping them in the pocket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Putin's administration is evil, there's no real debate there. Azovstal steelworks defenders will likely go down in history. Neither side is "winning" as such, but Ukraine's defence has been nothing short of extraordinary considering the circumstances (I had them pegged to fall in a week). Russia's military has been very incompetent so far, few arguments there, but it's all relative, they are still one of the largest militaries in the world, gains are not unexpected, the situation could swing in any direction. Apart from some outliers and sluggishness, the West's response has been pretty cohesive, certainly better than I expected, especially the Baltics. It's only natural people support Ukraine so it's normal that discourse is Ukraine-centric.

    Unfortunately some individuals views align with Putin's. And since Putin is the new Hitler so to speak, these individuals are "smart" enough know they can no longer directly show that support, hence pedantic contrarianism. Likewise they can't expose a posting history of Kremlin talking points, hence all the new posters. Some obviously seem to think the disguise works, idk :)

    Not angry at all, just pointing out the obvious. Right back to topic, and back to the grind, reading on Western media and feeds all about the Russian gains and problems Ukr troops are having.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The good news is that the war has gone as badly for Russia as it possibly could have done. The assumption on the day of the invasion by many observers was that they would take Ukraine relatively quickly. Their forces still pinned down in the south and east of the country over three months later is a quite disastrous outcome from their viewpoint - we can ignore any spin from the numerous Putin shills and fanboys about this reality, the overall invasion has been a terrible failure militarily and geopolitically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    True enough and the thing is that there is no obvious 'good outcome' possible for Russia(Putin) now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    And that's not even taking into account all the other elements of the invasion failure - economic sanctions, Russia banned from everything, a faltering economy, Finland and Sweden joining NATO. No amount of spin can cover up that this has been a disastrous failure for Russia and should never have been attempted by Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The assumption on the day of the invasion by many observers was that they would take Ukraine relatively quickly.

    And it's obvious it was also the assumption by Moscow. Russian officers were booking tables at Kyiv restaurants for that week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    I see clips like this daily, constant language of hatred from Moscow.




  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    You are going to have to back that one up with a link. Restaurant bookings? That's a doozy of an anecdote I haven't heard yet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Link is in the Russia thread somewhere. I believe the original source was a telegram channel, dead Russian soldiers have a habit of leaving a lot of info on their phones.



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