BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Apologies for getting off-topic, but why is there a shopping centre called Drogheda Mall in FINGLAS and not Drogheda?

I didn't consider the G2 for 24-hour operation solely on the basis of the Galway-themed 79 estates not having a night-time equivalent. I'd rather expect the D3 would have a night service for Clondalkin.

Any existing travel patterns will be a result of the existing network being so accommodating in that regard. That's one of the pitfalls of designing anything from scratch. Anyway, the 65 was included as an extreme example: for not having an alternative service, be it with BÉ or with rail, it should maintain some sort of a direct service into the city centre (otherwise I should start disputing a lot of the regional BÉ network), but the others have alternatives, and as I'd stated before, they are an extreme that wouldn't be accommodated as such in most other capitals.

RTPI or bus scrolls?

Perhaps they could reroute some of the Xpressos to serve the R132 instead of the M50. Sure, it might defeat the purpose of them if that were to happen, though it is probably the slap-dash solution that I can imagine the NTA implementing

On the buses themselves, seen a few photos on Facebook showing Drogheda Mall as the destination

Exactly, it makes no sense for the timetables to be in the format "towards [name of last stop]". Now, in a lot of cases the stop name is at least somewhat relevant to the actual destination (i.e. Rialto Chruch), but more often than not, the last stop name is pretty vague

I have a rather decent idea as to what the area looks like out there, as I have gone out to see and travel the 33s a few times. It's my fault for not being clear earlier - my comments regarding direct 33s into town focused on Skerries and Balbriggan as the two towns really far out, rather than Rush and Lusk. There is no right answer to this ideological debate here, but my base opinion doesn't change.

For the record, I don't consider that an improvement - never said I did - but merely argued my overall stance that happens to be in line with the envisioned network.

Do you think there would honestly be enough numbers to warrant a more frequent service out there though? Disregarding the "changing northbound in Skerries" waiting, just on pure passenger loads. Perhaps f-20 in the peaks, but otherwise?

(Also, resources are finite.)

No, it's more that the stop naming approach isn't good enough. Termini should be named with neighbourhoods/districs/villages, and intermediate stops should then use streets and nearby amenities. This way there can be thorough consistency across all aspects of passenger information.

The problem is that destination scroll programming is done usually as a completely separate exercise using separate software by the Operator, so somebody in GAI didn't think this one through. Well, then again, I should argue that it's programmed to match the stop name, perfect, except the stop name is useless, so not perfect at all. What's more, Dublin Bus have already uploaded the G1/G2 scrolls onto their buses.

I know there is a website with maps and all the rest of it for BC, but has there been much public information announcements anywhere? You know, details of the overall situation at the moment, what is ready to use, what will be in use soon, etc. I might be living under a rock, but I don't recall seeing any media articles or posters at bus stops and so on lately, but maybe there have been and I didn't see them.

I now know where the bus hub will be situated in Liffey Valley thanks to people here showing me on google maps. I was up there the other day, and ALL the car parks are being resurfaced, but there is absolutely NO sign up saying something like "This is the site of your new bus hub" yada yada. Nothing, people I spoke to assumed that the car park was just being resurfaced.

Not everyone has access to a computer/app/etc. on a daily basis, so I just wondered how do people find out about the changes in their areas, is it by picking up a leaflet on a bus or what?

All this talk about orbital routes and the nuances around them mean little to me. It appears I would have to spend a lot of time on the TFI app or the website or journey planner to find out, and then I would need to know the names of the bus routes and start and end point or something.

But then again, I'm just an occasional user of the bus like many others. Most people use the bus on the same route, same days, same time for a commute so they will know. It is others that need to be informed in order to encourage use of the new system. On the assumption that it is better than taking a car.

Hardly surprising given that's it's a Sunday and it usually takes a few weeks for a new route to bed in I remember the 175 being very quiet the first day it started operating. Especially on The Point to Collins Avenue section which is a completely new stretch unrelated to the old 17a.

I took a spin on the N6 to Finglas and then N4 to Spencer Dock. Some comments;

Brilliant new routes

Please get rid of Drogheda Mall (like seriously what clown thought that was a good idea)

One passenger in Finglas East was looking for the 17A to get to Coolock. No easy alternative for him apart from back tracking to “Drogheda Mall” and then forward on a N6.

N4 waited time at DCU, only to feel like we lost time at Swords Rd.

There are new stops that have the N4 /6 serving them, but no other buses that pass the stop. Why?

Not enough stops around the new section of the N4 in East Wall.

A terrible example of this, are the stops on the Swords Road for the N6 which have just been installed. These stops were meant to be a same stop interchange with the Swords Road at Santry Avenue.

What you have is the N6 stopping, but the 16, 33 and 41's all sailing past, making passengers walk back from the original changeover over stops closer to Omni, doing away with the purpose of the new stops. They have it right in some places, but not in others. It's messy and loses people when they are trying to get them on board.

Re your second paragraph, do we know who decided that facilitating connections was more important than a fast bus?

Like if you asked a snapshot of customers "would you prefer this bus (a) gets to it's destination in the quickest possible time or b) will deliberately slow down and have artificially long stops to facilitate a minority of customers who potentially want to transfer to this bus?" - well, I personally think the majority answer will be (a).

It sounds like this design has been done by someone who has decided what they believe the customer should want, rather than what the customer actually wants. And that's never a good way to design.

You missed the logical conclusion where if a bus is on time and you have the timetable for that stop at hand, then the bus is going to arrive more or less according to that timetable, so it's no longer a case of "standing in the pissing rain waiting for it", it's a case of awaiting it. You know when to expect it, roughly at least.

Like, I understand that Dublin passengers aren't used to this because CIE and DB have ruined the perception of timespace over the years, but as LXflyer rightfully pointed out, Dublin is an insane exception to the rule. The minimum that companies outside of Ireland adhere to is timing points, if not actually every stop as much as safely possible.

Well...

The June 2021 timings are from this tweet of mine >> https://twitter.com/TranslatorPS/status/1405588449059614722. The June 2022 timings are from bustimes.org. Stop 604 is key because at implementation this is the stop that was timed to the 7.5 minute frequency inbound, much like the stop outside Woodies in Lucan is for the Cs.

You'll see that most of the departures listed are now earlier than in the original implementation schedules. Oddly enough, the 6 gained some major time, but at least whichever schedule change did it, they got rid of the atrociously long running time on the first outbound Sunday 6 (it's now 53 minutes, it was closer to 75 when implemented, with some stops that should be about 45 seconds apart being in fact 6 mins apart).

Also, did I miss the memo on the H9 being completely cancelled? I know it was reduced from three departures down to one after summer last year, but when was it completely cancelled? There's no specific mention of the cancellation on DB's website, but it's still listed in a mid-March note on the closure of stop 619 from 12 April, but the timetable is gone off the route list.

On the C Spine, I can guarantee you that the Aston Quay interpeak period was a clean 7/8-minute frequency, with departures I believe 03-10-18-25-33-40-48-55 past the hour between 10 and 15 on the four routes combined, with C1s on 25/55, C2s on 10/40, C3s on 03/33, C4s on 18/48. But?

(I put this together Wednesday last, more to see how many peaktime departures there were, but the little shifts left and right are quite visible.)

The implementation bill used true timings for Aston Quay handovers, and there are little changes here and there. I think all four Cs between 10 and 12 are about 3-4 minutes earlier than they were at implementation - which means that if drivers hold true to the handovers in the bill rather than the schedule, then the buses are guaranteed to be 3-5 minutes late for a good section of the road ahead.

These are small details that should be announced but are not.