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Should we in Ireland be concerned about Jihad?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Not for Christians anyway was what I was taught in school, by the Christian Brothers. Christ changed the old Testament / Bible to the new and everlasting covenant between God an Man for all time. Jews have a different take on it of course, and there are other groupings out there as well, who still follow the Old Testament, certainly Mohammad incorporated quite a lot of it in the Quran. But then why not? He was in close contact with a Christian Cleric in his early days, and learned a lot from him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,861 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    The new covenant, god this stuff is kooky.

    I think your right catholics certainly don't believe all the old testament and i believe much of it is meant as allegory to them.

    I do think some of the morality contained in the OT is still considered cannon though. At a very basic level I know the 10 commandments(there are actually over 600 commandments) are OT and still hold validity to all christians so its certainly not all just swept aside with the new covenant with Jesus.

    There are of course many Christians who do hold that the OT is the literal word of God. Don't forgot the leader of the DUP briefly during last year is a young earth creationist. And they believe the story in genesis to be fact and have dated the earths creation to 3900 something BC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,449 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Not for Christians anyway was what I was taught in school, by the Christian Brothers.


    That was convenient 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Ah yes,, the DUP..🙂 As for the New Testament Robbie. Jesus Said " I am the new and everlasting covenant between God and Mankind for all time " So it specifically cancels the old Testament and replaces it. So there you have it Robbie, literally from the Man himself. So feel free to accept it or not according to your own beliefs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,861 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Well not literally from the man himself right jmreire?

    For that to happen you would have to believe the Bible is the literal word of Jesus.

    Which of course is impossible because I don't think he spoke Greek and I believe that is the language of the earliest new testament bibles.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Well for one thing, what we believe in, came from the 12 apostles who travelled with Jesus throughout his time on Earth, and they recorded it, after all they were the "People of the Book", so yes Christian's believe it to be true. Even the translations from the original language, I'm pretty sure that translators of that time were knowledgeable. Besides, its an article of faith, and Christians are bound by it. If you are not a Christian, or are an Atheist, then it does not really matter, does it??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,449 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    If one is not Muslim, there’s no reason to be concerned about Jihad either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,861 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    And as long as you're happy to believe all that jmreire sure that's all that matters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yup, Robbie, I'm fine with that, no conflict,🙂 I take you don't have similar view's Robbie, not that it matters one whit 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    I don't think there is any point in trying to debate logically with a religious person. They have already shown that they accept as fact, things that haven't been proven as a fact. These people will go to extreme lengths in order to support their irrational beliefs so conversing with them on an internet forum in an effort to have rational discourse is very much a complete waste of time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Thats very much a discriminatory post Mark, I'd say.....something on the lines of discrimination based on sex, color, religion etc. So according to you, only non -believers / atheists etc. should post on Boards??? After that ,what's next Mark? Only dedicated followers of Sinn Fein, Labour, Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Greens etc. ( Take your pic) may post on boards? Because between them they have produced a lot of irrational belief's.....and quite incredible though it may seem, people still vote for them, year after year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭Cordell


    As a long time established atheist I tell you that you're dead wrong. Religious people are religious because of faith, not because of reasoning and logic, and you can't use logic to argue against the faith. And this is why with some faiths it's easier to convince people to blow themselves up, there is no reasoning and no logic behind it, only the faith that they are doing right by their prophet and they will get their reward in heaven - what is the logic behind 72 virgins, do you really want that? I would rather have just a couple of "experienced" ones :) but I'm not coming from a culture and faith that commands women.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Sure, regarding religious beliefs, a lot ( if not all ) depends on the society you are born into. If I was born in Saudi, then I'd be a Muslim, no discussion, but I was born in Ireland (more years ago than I care to count, but its a cast iron bet, that unless they invent a remarkable medicine ) I've past the half way point... LOL. So Born into a Catholic family ( as were most back then ) I am where I am religion -wise, and basically, I will go out the same door I came in. And I have no problem with that. Now if I wanted to change my religion, or leave all religion behind, become an Atheist, I can do it, and many have done exactly that, so its not a problem. Now with Islam, its not do straight forward, but that's for a different thread. But like you said Cordell, its question of faith. Either you believe it in which no "convincing " is required, or if a non-believer, no convincing is possible. And there you have it.🙂



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I strongly believe in God... and I'm very clued into logic. They're not mutually exclusive. TBH I find atheists more likely to embrace extremes to justify their positions.

    I think the problem is that truly religious people believe... and so, you feel that you can never truly convince them. Hence the desire to discredit them. But then, I would say that science is often as much a religion as Christianity. A lot of reliance on belief... as opposed to hard evidence.

    I don't have a lot of patience with formal religions (Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, etc) but there's little real difference between a religion and a faith.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    It’s US policy to cover up any civilian deaths, pretty much every single time you hear of the USA massacring civilians they initially denied it ever happened, only when overwhelming evidence comes to light do they finally admit what happened.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,381 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - Do not discuss the ongoing Lisa Smith trial



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    In war it happens that innocent people get killed, and the US is not alone in this. There are many other forces who do likewise, but without any kind of accountability. Before the Taliban advance and entry into Kabul, amongst the worst ever attacks took place in Kabul ( and for Afghanistan, that's saying something ) on an almost daily basis. These attacks continued during the withdrawal ( isis K making their presence known ) So yes, they were on high alert, its a well known fact that jihadi's /, suicide bombers / driving VBied's mingle with traffic and people and in this case, a mistake was made. I'm not condoning it, or trying to make excuses for it, just stating a fact. Its also a fact, that many such jihadi attacks were foiled and many lives saved by such actions as a vehicle being attacked and destroyed. But you don't hear too much about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 hello how are you


    I think we need to have a conversation about culture. I know this is impossible, as too much stupid people think criticising culture is racism, but it's a conversation we should have anymore.

    There are aspects of muslim countries' culture which are not compatible with Ireland. The two obvious examples are the treatment of women and gays.

    However you'll notice there have been no muslim terrorist attacks in Ireland yet. This is likely because we do not participate in the bombing of the Middle East.

    But letting people who think women and gays are inferior or disgusting enter our country and walk around with complete freedom is simply waiting for trouble to happen. I'd much rather take a preventative approach and require all immigrants are questioned on their beliefs. I know they can lie, but it's a start.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    However you'll notice there have been no muslim terrorist attacks in Ireland yet. This is likely because we do not participate in the bombing of the Middle East.

    It's more likely to be related to population amounts, and the general lack of 2nd/3rd generational Muslims in Ireland (from modern immigration). We are simply behind the curve when it comes to immigration and subsequently the problems that comes from the children of migrants.

    If terrorist attacks were linked to actions abroad, we'd likely have been attacked for our peacekeeping activities. A lot of people abroad do not welcome the involvement of the UN in their national affairs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Islamic Jihadists have carried out attacks on Country's who like Ireland, haven't been involved in attacks in Muslim Country's. For extremist Islam, the fact that you are an unbeliever is enough, and where you are from is irrelevant. But how long that will last is anyone's guess. Mr Qaradawi, head of Clonskeagh Mosque is reputed also head of the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization banned in many Country's. To say that there has not been an terrorist attacks in Ireland, is not quite the same as saying that terrorist attacks have not been planned and facilitated in Ireland to be carried out else where. For sure that has happened, and the Guardai have several cases on file if you want to check it out, even here on Boards.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    I'm sure the family of Yosuke Sasaki would dispute there being no Muslim terror attacks in Ireland. There have been none that haven't been swept under the carpet.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    has anyone any statistics about the likelihood historically of dying in a Muslim attack in Ireland


    has anyone any statistics on the number of Irish people going around thinking the wrong things about gay ppl or women


    either strand seems like a strange tack to take to me to justify concern



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Search back through this thread, and you will find what you are looking for. The incidents have been mentioned several times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 hello how are you


    I don't think that attack was motivated by religion or culture though, but rather a severely mentally ill homeless man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Yeah, the whole screaming Allah hu Akbar while attacking multiple people was coincidence? Strange how no mentally ill people say Hail Mary or Amen when attacking people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 hello how are you


    I'm not denying he's a muslim, I just think in this case it was a severely mentally ill psycho.

    As a comparison, Osama Bin Laden was not a nutter. He was a psycho though...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As a comparison, Osama Bin Laden was not a nutter. He was a psycho though...

    Was he though? He believed in his cause and orchestrated events to support the cause he followed. That's not being a psycho, no more than Patton was a psycho, or Churchill was one. These are ideologically driven people. You can disagree with their views, but that doesn't mean that they were psychopaths.

    Ideology is important... and religion can be a strong aspect of an ideological belief system. Muslims tend to be very devout, with their religion being a central part of their motivations for doing just about anything. It's not the same as modern Christianity, or pretty much any modern western ideological movements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Well snoopsheep,,,, the issue is that world wide there has been many Islamic Jihadi attacks...too many, in fact. And these figures are available , ask Google. So you can ask will we have the same experience as other Country's, or will we be different from them, and if you say that, "No, we will never see an Islamic Jihadi attack in Ireland." Then what would make Ireland different from other Country's that have in some cases suffered many such attack's?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    thanks I can Google

    that's why I was asking specifically about Ireland as this is a thread where it would seem relevant

    apart from saying "oh it might" was there anything else?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nope. Most people would look at the patterns of behavior in other nations, consider what links us to them, and then wonder if the same patterns would be repeated here.

    Oh. I get it. There's a lot of people who want to ignore what's happening elsewhere, believing that Ireland will be different.. Just because.

    Now, I've stated a few times on the thread that I don't believe that Ireland faces much risk from Islamic terrorism.. however, I'd also be of the opinion, that things don't stay as they are forever. The political/ideological landscape in the M.East, and that of Muslims in Europe is changing, and I could see Ireland becoming a target in the future. It's not as if Ireland is a backwater nation anymore. There is value in discussing the topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Oh, I'm not saying it "Might", snoopsheep, I'm coming down on the side of it will..only thing is "When" Now instead of google go back through this thread, and there's plenty of posts detailing what has been going on in Ireland re Islamic Jihad. You are not the first poster to ask this question,,, there are several before you, and they have all been answered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    is it wise allowing a now convicted jihadist out on bail until sentencing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    No, it's not wise. It seems par for the course that whenever the Gardai object to bail the Judiciary in this country grant it. Now we just sit back and see what a paltry slap on the wrist sentence they give her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Completely agree. I can’t find any examples of guilty terrorists getting bail anywhere. The terrorist organisation she joined where notorious for blowing themselves up and she hasn’t denounced the religion - if anything she could become more extreme in the coming weeks.

    idiots.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    If a jihadist is 'vulnerable and damaged' than why is she granted bail?

    She is clearly a threat to the public as is and does not look to have denounced Islam in the slightest.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    She does not need to denounce Islam, but ISIS ?? Now that's a horse of a completely different color... if she were to do that...question is will she??? She is not in Al-Hawl camp now where they kill anyone who renounces isis , and she can claim her life depended on supporting, or to be seen as supporting ISIS, but here in Ireland, that should not apply. Be interesting to see what she will do, Renounce ISIS or not??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Because she joined an Islamic terrorist group?

    If she wants the courts to believe she is truly sorry than she should denounce the religion.

    Playing the sympathy card as an excuse won’t win over the jury. She is a threat to Irish people as long as she is not locked in a prison cell, if she wants to demonstrate differently than she will denounce the religion. Simple as.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭jmreire


    She needs to denounce the Jihadi part of Islam, and Islam has many parts, with most being peaceful. The Quran covers everything from love and peace to kill the unbelievers. And that's quite a long list. But the problem is that only God or Mohammad can remove the "Kill the unbeliever's" part. And so we are where we are with Islam,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Well many believe the Quran had been completely manipulated in its creation. Real Muslims who believe in the peaceful aspects of Islam don’t go to Syria.

    The prophet Muhammad and/or “Allah” shouldn’t need to miraculously appear to undo their wrong doings and teach them right from wrong.

    Muslims as a whole are good members of the community and have integrated very well into Irish society as a whole.

    She is not one of them people. She is a terrorist and needs to be taken out of Irish society pronto. As a country we need to take a very hard stance on this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Muslims as a whole are good members of the community and have integrated very well into Irish society as a whole.

    We're well behind other countries in their experiences of Muslims, and the numbers involved here in Ireland tend to be on the low side. Things will change as the population rises, although it'll be far too late to do anything about it then.

    Just about every Islamic nation in the world is moving back towards the traditional, and harder interpretations of Islamic teachings. There's a few who haven't but they're playing a tightrope act in trying to please all sides involved.. Muslims don't need to go to Syria to find the more "extreme" viewpoints. You can find Iman's in Europe who will do the associated teachings, and viewpoints towards the harder positions within Islam. Syria is just an option if someone wants the terrorist training, and heavier indoctrination associated with such groups.

    As for the manipulation of the Quran, many more continue to believe it is exactly correct.. because it suits their perspective. It's a very.. vague book, very open to interpretation.

    She is not one of them people.

    Sure she is. She was simply not born into the religion, and so, has less excuses for what she chose to involve herself in. However, she's one of them based on the religious, and cultural indoctrination that goes hand in hand with any practicing Muslim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,460 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    How people in any form can defend her in the slightest is beyond me and shows what some are like in here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Syria was not just an option.

    In 2006 Al Baghdadi declared his caliphate and called for Muslims around to world to join his terrorist organisation as it was committed horrendous acts of genocide across Syria and Iraq.

    That is what she joined. She is a terrorist and shouldn’t of been allowed back in the country never mind stand trial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Lisa Smith jailed for 15 months for IS membership

    15 f***ing months? Is this for real!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    Yeah lets throw her in a dark hole and throw away the key, not like she was groomed and led down the wrong path lets throw the book at her for getting into a situation she didn't know how to get out of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭enricoh


    That sentence will certainly make other jihadis think twice about relocating to Ireland!

    She may have to serve up to 10 months- will definitely miss the late late show 2022-2023 season!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    in the US it’s 10-15 years as standard for extreme terrorism which this is.

    the fact we will have an ex- isis member walking the streets in likely 12 months says it all about our passive and ridiculous justice system



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭touts


    Next time we see her will be in about 2/3 years on CCTV footage of her walking into a packed Croke Park wearing a bulky coat in the middle of summer as an expert points out the wire coming out of the sleeve leading to a button in her hand.


    Today's lenient sentence is an epic mistake.



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