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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...are you serously trying to tell us that all of the involved stake holders, from government bodies, to businesses etc, havent thought about all of this??? that they havent taught about on shore storage such as batteries and hydrogen etc etc

    .........





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Ireland has interconnect to the UK. Which in turn has interconnects to France.

    We are just putting in a direct link to France now which was always the plan, even without Brexit



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I am still completely behind the plan for an LNG plant in North Kerry so too are most people I have spoken to about it. I do hope the Government gets behind it and stops sitting on that particular fence.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭Jizique


    The companies are getting involved because they expect to be able to swing millions in subsidies from the govt for these - it is a particularly opportune time because the greens are in govt and they are seen as soft touches for anything like this



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...so the research supporting such activities must be wrong so!

    yes, subsidisation will be a critical element of getting this job done, it worked for the fossil fuel industry, so it should work for this also



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes a lot of that is indeed true, but the reality is, we cannot maintain our energy needs alone, its just simply not possible, we simply dont have the abilities, knowledge, finances etc etc etc. we have to put our trust in others, theres simply no other way....

    the reality is, by continually reducing state involvement in our most critical of needs, has in fact lead to catastrophic outcomes, 08 crash and the now aftermath etc.....

    yes, your final statement could very well be true, but we must try this alternative, or we re probably fcuked, or more so your kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews are so.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    "again, yup, theres still some serious issues to be addressed in regards pricing, but more energy independency is better for us, it might just shield us from future shocks, including price shocks, not guaranteed of course, but.... we re actually in a very strong position regards the availability of wind, we potentially could become an overall energy supplier to the eu, which would be extremely beneficially in many ways"

    I agree. A diverse energy mix of generation methods will help enhance our energy security.

    Atm we are in the period of transition towards 80% renewable energy generation by 2050. In this period we still require non renewable sources of energy generation. Atm that's mainly natural gas.

    In 2014, 96% of natural gas used in Ireland was imported. With the addition of the indigenous sources of natural gas have supplied as much as 60% of all natural gas supplies needed, with that declining to approx 30% this year. We now have the opportunity to bolster our indigenous supply with at least two untapped gas fields. To maintain divesify and security of supply the development of these resources is an absolute must.

    There is no argument against developing any of these resources when national policy A. states we require natural gas for the foreseeable future and B. states we should reduce our reliance on imported fossil fuels.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Do you need me to post again about the Nimbys complaining about Wind farms next door in Ireland? Or have you again forgotten that issuue is not unique to any development in Ireland or indeed elsewhere

    And no it has not "been shown the cost will be astronomical". Small scale nuclear reactors are now a reality. And as detailed nuclear is viable because it will be part of an energy mix, and therefore that is not a problem just because there will be "one" to start with.

    Storage of nuclear material is well developed and requires a relatively small amount of space. So again you're arguments there are bogus.

    Currently we primarily have wind generation as a renewable. With solar to come online at some point over the next few years. And because those renewables are inherently unreliable we currently need non renewables such as natural gas to back up our energy generation supply. Natural gas is increasingly expensive and our own natural gas resources being blocked by our own nimbys means we need an alternative means of energy generation. And that means small-scale nuclear power generation whether you personally like it or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Leo Varadkar has already stated the government will not block the LNG terminal development once it gets Planning permission.

    Cue the minority part of the government going rogue (Mr Ryan et al)and doing his damnest to put a spoke in the wheel of that by attempting to interfer with the An Bord Pleanála process to be determined later in the year with all his backyard buddies systematically lodging objections to beat the band. And not forgetting the proposed bill by another Green party TD (since suspended by the green party for not following the party whip) to deny planning permission for LNG infrastructure regardless if that LNG is fracked or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    understandable argument, but id have to disagree, we clearly need to get away from fossil fuels asap, and now is the time to do this, and hopefully we can reduce the damage we have done already by doing so, and wind is our truly viable option, to the point, if we build enough capacity, we could in fact become net energy exporters in the future, which would simply be a win win, greatly increasing our prosperity



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I am aware of the issues with LNG and while I agree with you on other matters when it come down to gas/renewables this country's still a good bit away from been gas independent. As for the UK supply of gas V pipe networks I would not be too trusting in no10 and the Uk. Point to note while it pushes the subject, all we have to do is look at the mess Germany is in with their disastrous decision to depend on Russia. Ireland still needs its own gas supply. If correct R&D was supplied to frackin I am sure improved method of frackin could be found.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    But Kerry LNG is not our own LNG. It is America's LNG been shipped here. It is owned by a private company who can sell to the highest bidder.

    So if they have 1 million ltr of LNG sitting in Kerry and the UK offers more than Ireland they can just sell it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Thing is it's not me saying that we need an alternative energy source during the period of transition- even the green party here and the government as a whole have agreed that this is necessary for maintaining essential levels energy generation in the period of transition. The two current issues being that Renewables are unreliable in their current state and Ireland now needs to move to ensure its own security of supply for those non renewables which are required for that transition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    That's a daft argument. If they wished to sell to the highest bidder - they are already more than able to do so. Why would they build anything here in the first place? Its not like we have a gas pipeline to any other EU County and the UK already has existing LNG terminals and more than ample stocks of its own imported LNG.

    That and the fact that the EU are putting in place a joint EU purchase mechanism for all member countries makes such objections null and void



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yea i understand this, but i think we have to take a chance here, i think we re in a good place to do so, it truly is now possible to have a wind farm up and running within a couple of years, and we re perfectly placed to avail of wind power, and possible supply parts of europe also. its important to remember, our main political parties are still primarily conservative, i.e. hardwired in taking chances, and would rather default to older methods such as fossil fuels, they can be very risk adverse. yes this is a risk but, i believe the risks of not moving off fossil fuels asap are far greater. again, im also not the only one saying this either, i have to completely agree with economist eric lonergan on this one, theres an astonishing opportunity here, we just have to take it......



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    OK I get what you're saying. But that effectively means going cold turkey with regards to natural gas and other non renewables with resulting brown outs and black outs for base energy generation and signifigant impacts on basic necessities such as heat, light and power

    No other EU country or indeed anywhere is trying that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Given Ireland's tendency on state infrastructure projects... I would much rather it be a US project.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    no not necessarily, carry on as we are, i.e. remaining using fossil fuels until we can pull the plug, but significantly ramp up expansion of renewables, much faster and greater than currently planned

    we would need significant eu support to do this, baring in mind, germany has recently agreed a major investment in their energy needs with their adjacent countries, such agreements need to be done eu wide, and on a vast level, quickly....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Yes but then you can’t complain when the prices goes up and not down for electricity



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Can you produce any evidence that shows turbines rusting at sea is an actual issue 🤔



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More pressure being piled on to get the planning system sorted so renewables can be rolled out faster




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nice one! The sooner this gets up and running, the better.

    F00kin bonkers timelines though, they really need to get this planning backlog/bottleneck sorted asap

    The permission will allow it to develop the onshore grid infrastructure necessary to connect the 800MW Phase 2 of Arklow Bank Wind Park to Ireland's electricity transmission grid.


    The decision comes just ahead of the upcoming application by SSE Renewables to the Government for a Maritime Area Consent (MAC) to allow it to proceed to apply for planning permission for the project's offshore infrastructure including offshore wind turbines, offshore substation platforms, and subsea cables.


    SSE Renewables is actively developing Phase 2 of Arklow Bank Wind Park which will be located in an area situated six to 13km off the Co Wicklow coastline, to the east of Arklow.


    The development is targeting delivery of up to 800MW of installed offshore wind energy under the Irish Government's new Maritime Area Planning (MAP) Act process.


    This means the next phase of offshore wind energy development at Arklow Bank would have the potential to power almost 850,000 homes each year and offset around 830 billion kilos of carbon emissions a year.


    The offshore wind energy project is expected to require an investment of up to €2.5 billion and, under current planning timelines, is expected to deliver first power in 2028 and completion in 2029, subject to a final investment decision.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Regarding energy storage in Ireland, the Minister had some things to say on the topic at a recent conference

    The conference heard nearly 500 megawatts (MW) of energy storage is connected to the all-island electricity system currently, while over 1,000MW of projects have planning permission. Further scale-up could cut Ireland’s annual carbon emissions by more than 1 million tonnes and reduce annual electricity bills by more than €85 million, according to a report commissioned by ESI.

    Long-duration storage technologies can reduce “dayahead carbon emissions” in the daily energy market by 50 per cent, concludes the report by energy analysts Baringa. “This makes a material contribution to meeting ambitious 2030 power sector decarbonisation goals,” it adds.

    The report models how the Irish electricity system would operate in 2030 with 2,000MW of energy storage, 1,600MW of which would be in the Republic, facilitating integration of renewables into the grid and ensuring power generation is not wasted. This would cut oversupply by up to 60 per cent, constraint volumes by up to 90 per cent, and curtailment by 100 per cent ‑ when there is excess electricity available.

    ESI head Bobby Smith said: “No electricity system can operate without a backup and in Ireland this has traditionally been provided by fossil fuel generation. Over the next 10 years we can store increasing amounts of wind and solar power in energy storage projects and use it to support the system instead of relying on coal or gas,” he added.

    I honestly wasn't aware there was so much storage coming on line this soon. I wonder if Silvermines is included in those figures



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    If that’s actually the case There’s nothing you can do about anyway so get over it 🫠



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    So ok what you detail does not preclude the use of our own non renewables including natural gas in order to provide independence of our energy supplies in that period.

    The timing of 80% renewables by 2050 has already been agreed as part of the last climate agreement. The trouble is not that we're not on target with renewables, rather renewables remain unreliable when it comes to energy generation, with wind and solar installations are highly variable in terms of output and on average generate approx 25% of installed capacity and need gas as backup

    Yes I saw that Germany has recently up they ante with regard to Renewables, however they are now also drilling for natural gas, installing LNG storage facilities and perhaps oddly enough also coal reserves which were on schedule to be shut off.

    The big problem and the large elephant in the corner however is that without the big five signing to immediate reduction in their emissions the climate will be fcuked regardless of how many megawatts of renewables we install



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why using gas as a stepping stone may not be the right way to go. Note this focuses on coal > gas > renewables where we have almost fully removed coal from our grid, nevertheless a lot of the points still stand i.e. constructing new gas infrastructure runs the risk of

    1. either having to keep using them long after they're needed to justify the expense and therefore delay further ramping up of sustainable options, or
    2. having a load of stranded assests.




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