Obi Wan Kenobi - Disney+ (may contain spoilers)

Tony EH · 31-05-2022 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140175#Comment_119140175

Kenobi knows that Anakin was rechristened as Darth Vader. He just didn't know that he was still alive.

But yeh, how yer wan Reva knows this better be good.

Sonics2k · 31-05-2022 4:16pm

Jesus I know Reva falls a little flat so far, but the mental level of vitriol being aimed at Moses Ingram online is insane. It's been two episodes and people are losing their nuts about her, from "ruining the show" to just blatant racism.

Oh, and let's remember this, because I've seen comments on this very thread. Star Wars is for kids. Lucas has been very specific on this since A Last Hope and each damn time a new movie comes out.

Relikk · 31-05-2022 4:25pm

It's social media. Scumbaggery, idiocy and sociopathic behaviour is endemic on it, and they do it because they can and get away with it. Sadly it's inescapable at this point.

Sonics2k · 31-05-2022 4:36pm

Sure social media plays a part in it, but this kinda stuff has plagued Star Wars since the prequels were released. Every time a new big show or movie comes out there's some new level of abuse.

TheIrishGrover · 31-05-2022 5:00pm

Also. Regarding Leia outrunning the adults. First through a crowded street that she can work through easier. Then over roof... while, y'know, they were a wee bit distracted what with shooting at eachother/dodging. (Or coming from further away).

And yeah, I thought you could very easily see her growing up to be Leia. As I said, I mainly put her precociousness down to her being a Jedi. And a literal princess. About the only issue I wad was with the convenient lenience of the main inquisitor. (I'm actually surprised Kenobi's first words weren't "Well hello there" or that Bail/his wife didn't come out with "Help me/us Obi-Wan. You're our only hope")

BruteStock · 31-05-2022 5:04pm

Reva lacks humanity and behaves like a WWE character. She's badly conceived and badly written. Disney knew this which is why they told her to prepare racist abuse.

Until that pasty white inquisitor talked down to Reva in a very obvious and racially charged manner , discrimination has never even been even remotely hinted at in the Star Wars franchise. I found that scene appalling tbh and it should never have been conceived never mind filmed. But thats what Disney does now , they are in the business of manufacturing and selling racism.

flazio · 31-05-2022 5:05pm

It's Rose Tico all over again 😤

is_that_so · 31-05-2022 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140675#Comment_119140675

Eh, that was an evil boss talking down to an evil underling. You know what Darth does with his when they get on his nerves! I agree the character is a bit stiff and one dimensional, but it's what you get in Sci-fi sometimes. Like the personality of the kid myself but agree on her unconvincing remarkable running prowess for a kid of 1.32m.

TheIrishGrover · 31-05-2022 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140458#Comment_119140458

This toxicity (especially from genre "fans") really annoys me. Look at the torrent of abuse that Kelly Marie Tran received. For no other reasons than she was Asian and a woman. Those films had some problems (And some good points) but the hatred she received by these mom's-basement-dwelling neckbeard man-child keyboard warriors. It was just appalling. You'd swear she was the single sole reason for the films being bad. It was absolutely disgusting and there is NO reason AT ALL other than racism and misogyny. Zero. None at all!

There is also no pleasing them. Keep it too close to previous canon and it's slammed for being boring/a repeat. Deviate even the slightest and the world is ending and you have ruined their childhood. Heaven forbid you bring in a SINGLE female character that isn't simply there to be hot.

Varik · 31-05-2022 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140675#Comment_119140675

Whole scene was odd, like the problematic manager in a HR department anti discrimination video.

She's powerful or maybe has a particular power, but she's the least of them. Power generally being the be end and end all for the dark side.

It's also bumps up against the only real major discrimination we've seen from Star wars in that the empire was pro human and core world centric, the inquisition being the exception as it's members were mostly non human gathered from the outer rim and beyond for the non former Jedi.

Sonics2k · 31-05-2022 5:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140675#Comment_119140675

Oh please, you're telling me that the racist abuse is because of the way the character is written? We're two episodes in and it's far too soon to say how the character will go. Are we forgetting the massive amounts of racism aimed at John Boyega when people thought he was going to be a Jedi?

I have no idea where you're getting the idea that it was a racist scene, when clearly it was based on the fact that Reva is the weakest of the Inquisitors and he's the strongest.

edit: Also, if you think discrimination has never been a thing in Star Wars you got some reading to do. Did you not wonder why the Empire is like, 99% humans?

BruteStock · 31-05-2022 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140768#Comment_119140768

What constitutes abuse ? One tweet? A dozen? 100s of tweets? Have you seen this abuse with your own eyes are are you just parroting what you read by the media?

This here is the reason Disney is creating racism so they can be the defenders of the racism they created.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/09/02/john-boyega-calls-out-disney-for-downplaying-actors-of-color-in-star-wars/?sh=41ca8c537ab0

is_that_so · 31-05-2022 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140736#Comment_119140736

There is also no pleasing them. Keep it too close to previous canon and it's slammed for being boring/a repeat.

There's never any pleasing of fans these days and judging by the looks of this post, you yourself! Why even bring them into it? They will do what they do. Quite baffled by this racism thing that has emerged on the thread but then again I'm just watching what's happening. The response to her single-mindedness is not remotely shocking, Big Bad guy threatens minion is a long past even being a well worn cliché. It remains to be seen how her character develops but she's not off to a good start with the furniture chewing IMO.

Sonics2k · 31-05-2022 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140810#Comment_119140810

It literally, literally shows in that very article the racist abuse that was thrown at him and Kelly Marie Tran. Moses is being put down as a "diversity" hire.

Nvm, just remembered who I'm speaking to and read over past comments. Not worth the argument.

corkie · 31-05-2022 5:33pm

@TheIrishGrover

(I'm actually surprised Kenobi's first words weren't "~~Well~~ hello there" or that Bail/his wife didn't come out with "Help me/us Obi-Wan. You're our only hope")

Ewan McGregor reacts to THAT Obi-Wan Kenobi meme

^^^ Contains spoiler trailer scenes

https://youtu.be/0cw0jTmeOg0?t=104

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEq1Z0bjdwc

BruteStock · 31-05-2022 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140831#Comment_119140831

Except Boyega never mentioned the fanbase. He criticized the industry directly. Of course the media will direct his criticism off them and onto the fans, which they did.

TheIrishGrover · 31-05-2022 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140826#Comment_119140826

I don't know if you read my post but I genuinely liked the episodes so far. One minor niggling point which was not a deal breaker. I am not precious about Star Wars or anything I grew up with really.

I just found the hatred aimed at young Leia to be very predictable (Even before reading this thread I knew what was going to be said.). I must admit, for some reason, I didn't expect to see the hatred at Reva (Although, to be honest, I should have).

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about toxic genre "fandom": It's prejudice wrapped up under the guise of fandom really. You are, of course, entitled to agree/disagree.

Looking forward to the next episode. It's certainly making up for the damp squib that was Boba Fett.

TheIrishGrover · 31-05-2022 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140859#Comment_119140859

Poor bugger. Yeah, that's gotta be annoying (Thinking about Fr. Ted/Victor Meldrew)

is_that_so · 31-05-2022 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140891#Comment_119140891

Like it myself and just letting the episodes lay themselves out! It's now set down some of its key pointers for the series. I'm not convinced by the Reva character so far but not annoyed by her (yet!). If she's just a cardboard baddie so be it, she's far from being the first one in Star Wars!

fritzelly · 31-05-2022 8:01pm

Going by a lot of the comments on here I was expecting to not like this but very much liked both episodes, EM really makes the show

Tony EH · 01-06-2022 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140458#Comment_119140458

Social media is Chinatown. Don't even attempt to try and rationalise it S2K. You won't be able to.

As for Lucas intending Star Wars to be for kids. That wasn't the case in 1977. In fact he specifically said that he didn't want to make a "silly child's film". He kinda retconned that, along with many other things, later on as a sort of get out of jail card for how nonsensical it all became.

Tony EH · 01-06-2022 8:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141457#Comment_119141457

In fairness, there's been some pretty mild criticism of certain parts of it so far. Sure, you'll always have the "it's crap" crowd. But they're always there. But it's been OK in the main, which seems to be most people's reaction to the first two episodes.

In any case, I don't think anyone was really expecting this to be some kinda world beater or anything.

pixelburp · 01-06-2022 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142836#Comment_119142836

There's something deeply Low Effort about it all. More interested in box ticking a course correction from the prequels. For me anyway, but I went into this with a slight reservation towards another prequel, spinning around the same era and same subset of characters. After Episode IX I was so completely done with the effin' Skywalker's (and Palpatines too I guess lol), visiting that whole umbrella of people feels more like homework than flying about a universe I used to LOVE. My bookshelf of old Expanded Universe novels tells that nerdy tale (and those books are now currently being played with by the 20mo lol)

God knows I had plenty of criticisms of Mandalorian but man it was good to watch new people getting by in this universe, having their own adventures divorced of the whole Skywalker Blather (which is why Season 2s slide into indulgence there grated). I have started to get a bit invested in the fate of Mandalor too; it's comparatively low stakes, relatable problems for a Star Wars story. It's great.

I've only still watched the first episode of Kenobi but ehhhhhhhh, I dunno.

Oh and the news that the actor playing Reva is being harassed and racially abused on social media is as depressing as it is predictable. There's a weirdly racist clatter of Ultras in the fan space; maybe making your facist baddies look super cool and merchandise'ble isn't a great cultural idea lol

Sonics2k · 01-06-2022 8:56am

Just watched episode 3, what a great episode.

Vader on the scene, showing off what an absolute monster and powerhouse he is. I wouldn't say Reva is growing on me, but starting to see more about her plans. Personally I think she wants to be Vader's apprentice, and so a full blown Sith and not just an Inquisitor.

Tony EH · 01-06-2022 9:51am

@pixelburp There's something deeply Low Effort about it all. More interested in box ticking a course correction from the prequels. For me anyway, but I went into this with a slight reservation towards another prequel, spinning around the same era and same subset of characters. After Episode IX I was so completely done with the effin' Skywalker's (and Palpatines too I guess lol), visiting that whole umbrella of people feels more like homework than flying about a universe I used to LOVE. My bookshelf of old Expanded Universe novels tells that nerdy tale (and those books are now currently being played with by the 20mo lol)

Yeah, it certainly does feel like a leisurely retreat to safety of a fallback position. But after the shambles of the new movies (Rogue One excepted) I suppose it's to be expected. Disney just don't know what to do with Star Wars, and I've said it a thousand times. Which still seems remarkable in any case. However, yeah, it's another case of using the cushion of an old familiar character as a cheap boost, while someone (anyone) struggles to come up with an actual new character that doesn't completely suck. I only hope poor old Ben doesn't go the way of Han, Luke, The Emperor, Boba, etc and get thoroughly diminished in the process.

@pixelburp God knows I had plenty of criticisms of Mandalorian but man it was good to watch new people getting by in this universe, having their own adventures divorced of the whole Skywalker Blather (which is why Season 2s slide into indulgence there grated). I have started to get a bit invested in the fate of Mandalor too; it's comparatively low stakes, relatable problems for a Star Wars story. It's great.

'The Mandalorian' certainly wasn't without its flaws, that's for sure and at the end of the day, he was really just a riff on Fett. But, at least, it was kinda someone else to watch in the galaxy. Like you, I'm so so tired of the Skywalkers. Doubly so after the complete destruction of them in the sequels. So it was refreshing to spend a bit of time with a "new" character for a bit. My problem with the Mandalorian now though is that his story is sort of over? It's hard to know where it can go now.

@pixelburp Oh and the news that the actor playing Reva is being harassed and racially abused on social media is as depressing as it is predictable. There's a weirdly racist clatter of Ultras in the fan space; maybe making your facist baddies look super cool and merchandise'ble isn't a great cultural idea lol

Lamentable and completely foreseeable. But I just tune out of these things. The problem with those types is that they make it difficult to offer genuine criticisms of a character's flaws, even if that's a terribly first world "problem". Although I do think that there's genuine critical points to be made about Reva's character, mannerisms and motivations as they stand and Ingram's effort has been sort of poor so far. Racially abusing an actor or actress for appearing in a TV show/movie though...I don't think I'll ever really get my head around that kinda nonsense. Some real mental issue stink coming off of all that stuff.

johnny_ultimate · 01-06-2022 9:58am

I think the main problem with the Star Wars TV stuff so far is that they seem happy for it to be 'good enough' and no better than that (that and the fact they keep on falling back on the Skywalker family as a narrative device, even though those stories have been comprehensively told). It makes for shows that are fine and watchable but only occasionally rise above that to actually being "good". Obi-Wan once again fits that bill - it does exactly what it says on the tin, and absolutely nothing more so far.

The biggest problem with Obi-Wan so far though is that the action is dire. Some of the worst directed action scenes I've seen. The rooftop chase kind of just stops once Leia falls off the roof, and the parkour is deeply silly. But there are two other scenes - the opening one with Benny Safdie and then Flea & co chasing Leia in the woods - where powerful characters are just stopped dead by the most arbitrary of obstacles. They really feel tossed together to a quite bizarre degree.

Oh, and it goes without saying, anyone sending abuse to Moses Ingram - racist or otherwise - is a miserable coward.

TheIrishGrover · 01-06-2022 10:27am

I enjoyed the first couple of episodes and am looking forward to the rest. But I want this to be the end of what they are now calling the Skywalker Saga/Cycle. I agree with you 100% regarding seeing new people (I still loves ya. Lol). Posted elsewhere that yeah, I don't want to see another story about Skywalkers or Solos or Calrissians or whatever. It makes the whole universe small. I get it. The first 6 movies were the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Now that's fine. Move on. I mentioned that the most interesting thing I liked about The Last Jedi was that Rey was nobody. I thought that was excellent (and we know how that went). They have thousands of years they could focus on. I don't even want another Jedi/Sith show (Although I suspect I am very much in the minority there). Sure, they exist in this world bit try something new.

Disney is beginning to stagnate again. Remake after remake, overemphasis on existing franchises. Not willing to risk. They have a wonderful does called Owl House (which I also mentioned elsewhere and heartily recommend). Beautiful animated show from some of the team behind Gravity Falls. Last season has been severely cut down. Not because of ratings or reviews. Not even its pro-LGBTQ stance (which will immediately put some of the perma-triggered off. Insert "Woke" comment here. Good. Don't need their biggotry). But simply because execs think it is not "on brand" with Disney's current output.

They have their platform. Now it's the time to experiment. I'm not saying abandon their legacy. I'm not saying let's remake Star Wars with an all LGBTQ cast. I'm not saying recast Luke to be a Latina woman. Or making Nick Fury error (again). I'm dating they should do something different.

pixelburp · 01-06-2022 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119143255#Comment_119143255

The desperate backpedaling of Rey being a nobody into a Surprise Palpatine was one of the most creatively bankrupt decisions made me a mainstream pop culture franchise in years. Maybe ever. And it's so ironic given you'd have thought the Last Jedi's message that anyone could be a Jedi would resonate with a corporation trying to make bank off kids buying into that idea. You too could be powerfu... Actually no. Only the Chosen Ones.

Not only did it show a total lack of courage in their conceptual convictions, but also showed that the hardcore, angry "fans" had the power to basically whinge and bitch and moan their way into getting more nostalgia ****, regardless of cost. It made Disney think all Star Wars could be was a constant rehash of the same ideas and same characters. And so here we are. Even the Mandalorian slowly let itself be eaten by nostalgia with that godawful season 2 finale (yes I won't let it go).

The truly experimental ideas will exist on the fringes with the anime anthologies - but Disney are terrified of making more wrong decisions and will cripple themselves into a stream of mediocre ones. There's not a single interesting or unique idea in the live action series. Just comfort blah.

seraphimvc · 01-06-2022 10:43am

I actually think the actress is not bad (did i see her before in movie or something, forgettable but I have no negative memory on her ha), is because the Reva character is written poorly (so far...) so the actor is just doing her job.

The social response (bully) is ridiculous as always (i dont follow them closely but ya i would hear something if the noise gets loud) but maybe I can see where this is coming from. Is because most of these new Disney shows came out in the past 2 years (those Marvels shows...) are kind of 'bait and switch', basically sh!tting on the characters that people love for a long time (and usually replaced them by something/someone else). Like the show supposed to be about Boba and literally gets hijacked into a season 2.5 Mando...and oh god yes Boba image in my mind is no longer the cool meme best bounty hunter 😂

For an Obiwan show, we are supposed to expect Obiwan+inquisitor as the main plot, and get some leia/luke side stories maybe.

So this Reva 3rd sister looks interesting from the trailer but then when people see her sh!t on the inquisitor (it is funny as i said before the grand inquisitor just chill out when she is being rude/disobedient and he couldn't deflect her attack get stabbed just like that), and she is the one delivering the key Vader info to Obiwan. See, none of us knows what is this 3rd sister character but suddenly the audience is forced to accept that oh she is important and powerful and...she is obsessed and has been chasing Obiwan for 10 years.

I can see the frustration from those fans and probably very worried that she might literally took over the show that is supposed to be 'Obiwan' aha (like if the second half of the show turned into 'Reva's origin story' lol).

Oh god please let me be wrong ('Reva's origin story' sounds very plausible after i typed it out lmao).

seraphimvc · 01-06-2022 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140458#Comment_119140458

SW is for kids - and adults - it is for all ages.

Just look at the duel of fate in TPM (EPI1), forever memorable and enjoyed by kids and adults. And it was about cutting the bad guy in half.

Being a 'kids show' is not an excuse to have incompetent/poor writing and executions. (again, SW is for all ages)

I have hope for Dave filoni projects, and maybe also Andor/RO team. Other than them, I don't see Disney can create some great scene like duel of fate anytime soon. And I would love to be wrong here.

Obi Wan Kenobi - Disney+ (may contain spoilers)

Comments

Ewan McGregor reacts to THAT Obi-Wan Kenobi meme