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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭wench


    Thanks for doing this. Glad to see I'm not the only one working in a mushroom farm ;-)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    fair play for all the effort really interesting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    We received a DPER circular earlier this month regarding blended working policy within our department. It all sounded great - exalting the department's desire to embrace progress and a better work life balance for all employees. An application to apply for blended working is to be issued in June.

    Our manager told us today that he will only be offering 1 day WFH, where we have up till now been working 3/4 days from home. When asked why, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "that's just what I have decided" . This is before the applications are even issued. Office was like a morgue after he said it. People are NOT happy.

    Our productivity is up, calls & emails are being answered 100%, everything is working smoothly. It's just pure pig-headedness and unwillingness to move with the times as far as we can make out. One colleague has already decided to hand in her notice and I have applied for mobility. If I don't get mobility before Christmas, I'll be taking a job elsewhere.

    That's two employees with more than 20 years experience between them he'll definitely be losing and more are bound to follow. As far as I can make out, the blended working policy sounds great in principle, but in practice, is more or less totally reliant on having a manager who gives a toss about the people working for them. Ours clearly doesn't.

    One of the circulars we received gave an extensive outline of how they want to be progressive and attract more talent into the civil service. Managers like mine won't help at all in that regard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    That's really amazing work @TaurenDruid, fair play to you!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    *Hope there won't be "family friendly " criteria as in my organisation worksharing has been restricted to staff with children under 18 and staff with medical reasons.

    Woah.

    This jumped out at me. This is blatant discrimination on grounds of family status and whomever has implemented this restriction needs to be dragged in front of the WRC, asap.

    Still processing the rest of the information, but great job, @TaurenDruid !



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    One colleague has already decided to hand in her notice and I have applied for mobility. If I don't get mobility before Christmas, I'll be taking a job elsewhere.

    Is handing in notice not a little drastic as a first step? Would it not be an idea to either get the union involved, or all just contact HR and look for a transfer? CC'ing this guy's manager and outlining why you're all looking to move? Very hard to justify his position, given the circumstances, and more senior management might well tell him to cop on to himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yup, that one jumped out at me too. That's pretty much a textbook case of discrimination on the grounds of family status.

    Given some of the posts in the last couple of pages, I'm really wondering what the hell Fórsa and the AHCPS are doing these days apart from selling insurance!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Some managers are just petty. I have 6 staff working to me. We look out for eachother and ensure that we all get to WFH when we want. I have made in more than clear that as long as the work is getting done and they go to site when needs be that they can work where they want on the other days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Circular on Haddington Road hours reversal issued: https://www.gov.ie/en/circular/46f72-circular-142022-revision-of-working-hours-in-the-civil-service/

    In a nutshell: we're going to a 7-hour day.

    Not, for some reason, the actual pre-HRA hours of 6:57. I imagine Fórsa will send a strongly worded email, and the land-grabbing PO or AP who decided this will get a promotion for "saving" all of those 15-minute chunks.

    The core hours are weird and they retain the "we finish 15 minutes early on a Friday so ye can all rush to the train station to get a seat" and bizarre 1 hour 15 minute lunchbreak. And 9:12?!

    5. The normal attendance period for civil servants will be from 9.12am to 5.30pm Monday to Thursday, and 9.12am to 5.15pm on Friday with 1 hour and 15 minutes for lunch break.

    This was interesting, though:

    16. For those working in a blended pattern, it has been agreed that a pilot will be conducted, during the latter half of 2022, to test the operation of flexitime accrual in a blended working environment. Further details on the pilot for flexitime accrual will be available from local HR units.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,255 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Totally illegal.

    Every time I hear the guff about "the civil service aiming to be one of Ireland's leading employers etc. etc." my eyes nearly swivel right to the back of my head. It's bollocks. Start by consistently obeying employment law across the board, that is literally the very minimum any employer should be doing.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,255 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    * Just wish it wasn’t implemented on the personal whims of senior management.

    👍️

    * In DECC five days a week in the office will only be allowed in exceptional circumstances. I answered yes to question on Partnership Committee but its really Grade Forum reps for each grade, and there is a specifically set up cross grade Consultative Group comprising of grade reps from A/Sec down to CO.

    Partnership Committee, now there's a thing I haven't heard in 15 years or so.

    Seriously, they still exist?

    * If we have a bank holiday or day off these days are regarded as our remote working days so some weeks we have no remote working. Although we have normal working hours our remote days are changed on a whim for no reason, messing up childcare arrangements etc, regularly.

    Totally unfair and displays an amazing lack of cop on tbh. Anybody who would implement such a thing should not be managing people.

    * My department sets number of days in office higher for Admin staff than professional staff even though we all work on delivering the same service. Concern is that locally approved blended arrangements will mirror pandemic with Admin staff required in office while professional staff WFH with process adapted to facilitate only professional staff.

    As above.

    * DSP seem very flexible and progressive.

    LOL!

    * Perhaps bit more on communication from Management to staff on their thoughts, as in my own department staff have not been really consulted throughout the process.

    Zero consultation and zip from the union branch too.

    * Maybe a question on who do we think is pushing for back to the office? Answer: the Sec Gen! Or something to capture the reality on the ground i.e. plenty of people in my dept seem essentially to be ignoring the edict, but I'm still on probation so don't feel that I can do that, much as I want to. Plenty of days I've gone in to an empty office, current situation is ridiculous IMO

    👍️👍️

    * Our AP had all staff in office despite official policy and point blank refuses WFH. If they hear of someone WFH they demand to know who authorised it & expect the employee to either be in the office the following day or to report sick.

    Gobshite. Should be stuck in a white walled room on his own and told to read reports for the rest of his days.

    * You might ask additional questions about provision of desk, chair or costs to cover these.

    I brought home my fancy back chair, when we returned to the office regularly they eventually got me a second one for in the office. It's in their interest as the first chair saved them a fortune in sick leave. No desk provided and I haven't heard of anyone getting one in our Dept.

    * The lack of engagement with AP Grade and down has been lacking in this process. The irony of the system where we all rattle out the set pieces at interview re engaging with stakeholders, communicate with stakeholders, lead and manage people, collaborate, bring people with you etc - why are we not applying those competencies in the most fundamental of policies impacting on civil service and public sector staff? I fear a policy will be brought in that both managers and staff will not agree with nor feel part of the decision and the result will be a disengaged workforce.

    Hear hear 👍️👍️👍️ this is where all the airy-fairy management-speak BS hits reality, and so far it's not looking too pretty

    * I have been so angry how staff have been treated by management (Sec. Gen, HR etc.) in my Dept. and also the Forsa rep in relation to the return to the office. I worked at home for 2 years and myself or my colleagues were not consulted at all on the return to the office. WFH is life changing for me and improves my quality of life. I feel workers are just puppets at the moment to fill spaces in properties/real estate and there is no care for staff wellbeing or what the majority of staff want.

    👍️ and as for the union I couldn't even tell you who my Forsa rep is any more. The merger has, as predicted, been a complete disaster for everyone apart from the officials

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭JoeSexton


    I've tried to engage with our Fórsa rep to at least give us updates as to what stage the negotiations are at...Tumbleweed. I think at this point I may as well cancel my subscription.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat


    My Dept has published the policy and had two townhalls with the SG which took questions on it post publication.

    Pre publication both the Fórsa and AHCPS branches shared the draft policy with the membership and took feedback/observations back to the Dept.

    Very strange that some others have had no Union interaction. If your branches aren't on the ball you should really aim to change the Committees representing you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 happyWednesday


    @TaurenDruid thanks so much for this it's really insightful 👍. Is it possible to get a breakdown of the WFH amount per week per dept, to see who's best/worst?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid



    Do you mean for under current arrangements; or what's been proposed for published policies? I can pull this out all right but I'll have to do it mostly manually, I think, so it'll be this evening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 happyWednesday


    It would be from the results of this survey ie if Revenue people answers were WFH 3 days a week, Agriculture 1 WFH etc. Only if you can, once it's not too manual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭adelcrowsmel


    We all want to see where we are going to look for a move to😀!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 happyWednesday




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme



    If people let managers get away with stuff like the above things will never change. That manager should be challenged on his decision through appropriate channels. I certainly wouldn't be letting him make that decision scot free.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Oh, we plan to appeal as soon as we're offered the one day WFH. I spoke to our AP about the appeals process yesterday and he explained that we have to appeal to him and then ultimately the PO if that fails.

    To be honest, I've already mentally prepared myself to leave. Submitted 2 job applications today already ( both offering hybrid/WFH options). I simply don't want to work under anyone who mistrusts and undervalues his staff to such a degree. His loss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I bet there is nothing in writing about that - while there are a lot of gobsh*te managers in the PS, they wouldn't be stupid enough to put the above in writing.

    They might say it in a phone call though which is where the ability to record calls is a useful skill.

    Employee: I see my request for work sharing has been rejected, why is that?

    Gobsh*te: it's because you don't have children under 18

    Employee: LOL, see you in court!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme



    Wait, when you said the manager do you mean the HEO?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme


    I wouldn't be paying any attention to what a HEO says



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Minimum wfh opportunities in my place and HEO decides who is allowed wfh. No appeal of the actual decision is allowed.

    Between that and mobility seemingly at a standstill, I’m going to crazy while waiting for a change.

    Union are useless.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    HEO shouldn't have that discretion tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Calmcookie84


    Does the revised working hours mean I can no longer work 8-4.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I should caveat this (and in fact all the results!) by saying I'm assuming good faith on all the responses, that nobody was messing, that nobody submitted multiple forms, etc., and that nobody should base career choices off an anonymous survey published on boards!

    So, for Departments that have already published a Blended Working Policy:

    • D/Enterprise will allow 2 days WFH, from next year. This is worse than at present, where currently staff have 3 days WFH. (Based on 1 response)
    • D/Foreign Affairs will allow 2 days WFH, from Q3. This is worse than at present, where currently staff have 3 days WFH. (Based on 1 response)
    • D/Justice will allow 1, 2, or 3 days WFH (1 response) or 2 days WFH (1 response), from Q3. This is worse than at present, where currently staff have 3 days WFH.
    • D/Social Protection will allow... well, confusion. 6 responses, 4 different answers :-) So it'll either be 1 day WFH as the only option (unlikely, I feel - this was 1 person), 4 days WFH as the only option (2 people), choice of 1 to 4 days WFH (2 people), or choice of 1 to 5 days WFH (1 person). A majority saying this be introduced in Q3. The current situation is varied - ranging from WFH fulltime to "everyone is back in the office fulltime" - so presumably a public office. (Also, note another 8 people working in D/SP are under the impression that the Department has not published a blended working policy...)
    • Revenue Commissioners will allow 3 days WFH (1 response) or a choice of 1 to 4 days WFH (1 response), from Q4. This is worse than the current situation, where currently (most?) staff are WFH fulltime.

    Meanwhile, the current situation for Departments is as follows (note I excluded the "Organisation with more than/less than 500 staff" and the local authorities, cos it's a gorgeous evening...):

    • 3 days WFH, 2 in the office: CSO, Departments of Children, Defence, Education, Enterprise, Environment, Finance, Foreign Affairs, Further & Higher Ed, Health, Housing, Justice, Rural & Community Dev, Tourism
    • 2 days WFH, 3 in the office: DPER (though 1 of the 5 respondents has more WFH days), Departments of Agriculture, Transport

    Other:

    • D/Social Protection, as already noted, currently has a variety of work patterns. 14 respondents in total, one person says "everyone is back fulltime", but everyone else is WFH from 3, 4, or 5 days.
    • Revenue, as above, most people WFH fulltime with just one person back in the office fulltime, as a local manager won't allow WFH.


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