Cash only shops

54and56 · 04-12-2019 9:49am

Darc19 wrote: »

Incorrect.

You need to understand what legal tender is.

Only where a debt exists, does legal tender come into the situation.

A retail transaction is an agreed exchange.

A shop can refuse to take cash. A shop can also legally refuse to give change too. (they'd be out of business very quickly though)

Ok, point taken ref there being no requirement for a shop to accept cash but my point was in response to a comment about how a cash only shop would explain why it only took cash and not cards.

Cash is the only form of legal tender so there should be no question mark over why it is accepted and conversely cards are not legal tender and require trust in the banking system so shop owners should not be questioned or challenged by Rev Comm as to why they don't accept them, it's entirely their perogative.

Having said that IMHO the correlation between cash only (or predominantly cash) businesses and businesses which fiddle the tax system via under declaration of income, facilitating dole cheating by paying wages in cash etc is very high and much higher than businesses who accept cards and put all their transactions through EPOS or similar systems.

TLDR; Not all businesses that fiddle tax are cash only businesses but all cash only businesses fiddle tax.

silver2020 · 04-12-2019 9:59am

54and56 wrote: »

Cash is the only form of legal tender so there should be no question mark over why it is accepted and conversely cards are not legal tender and require trust in the banking system so shop owners should not be questioned or challenged by Rev Comm as to why they don't accept them, it's entirely their perogative.

Having said that IMHO the correlation between cash only (or predominantly cash) businesses and businesses which fiddle the tax system via under declaration of income, facilitating dole cheating by paying wages in cash etc is very high and much higher than businesses who accept cards and put all their transactions through EPOS or similar systems.

TLDR; Not all businesses that fiddle tax are cash only businesses but all cash only businesses fiddle tax.

The phrase Legal Tender has no meaning in a retail transaction.

As for fiddling - Revenue commissioners are rather clever.

#1 - you must keep records for 6 years. If you have computerised tills, it must be able to keep 6 years of records. If you do not keep the records, the penalties are extremely severe and implemented.

#2 - Revenue use "averaging" and industry knowledge. they know what a business should be taking in and if it does not match, that business is watched.

#3 Correlation. They cross reference invoices from suppliers with payments a nd can investigate a supplier's records. Again, if it does not add up, they will make assumptions - and those assumptions are always on the high side.

Yes, there will always be fiddling going on, but its not near as widespread as some may think as the penalties are very severe

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 04-12-2019 10:04am

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Cash in shops is faster than waiting for a machine to authorize a debit card, much prefer cash.

Waiting for change?

riclad · 04-12-2019 12:43pm

I can,t think of a brick and mortar shop that could survive on just credit cards customers ,
a lot of people do not use credit cards at all.
it may not make sense for a small shop to take credit cards,
they pay a fee to use a card on each transaction .
they have to install equipment to handle cc cards .

54and56 · 04-12-2019 1:40pm

There will always be cash and there will always be (a declining) number of both people and shops who insist on only dealing in cash but the macro trend is not something any retail business should ignore if it wants to thrive.

easypazz · 04-12-2019 5:10pm

riclad wrote: »

I can,t think of a brick and mortar shop that could survive on just credit cards customers ,
a lot of people do not use credit cards at all.
it may not make sense for a small shop to take credit cards,
they pay a fee to use a card on each transaction .
they have to install equipment to handle cc cards .

They also pay a fee to get coin off a bank and to deposit notes back to the bank.

And they often have to drive to the bank to deposit cash.

It won't be long costing more than a machine would.

If you don't have a machine, but the other shop nearby does, then its to the shop with a machine people who don't have cash in their pocket will go.

You simply must have a machine if you are serious about your business.

riclad · 04-12-2019 5:19pm

I,m not talking about hair salon,s or large shop,s .
i think a chipper or a small shop can operate just using cash,
if you want tech bro,s or yuppies as customers you will need to take credit cards.
I Hope we do not end up like china,in 10 years , its very hard to buy anything in china without using an app on a smartphone.

freshpopcorn · 04-12-2019 5:24pm

I've worked in a shop in a city centre and town in the past few months.
There is a difference
In the city you'd get loads of card payments and people paying with there phones.
In the town you'd get nearly all cash payments and the card payments you get are generally people who work in the city during the week. I don't think I've ever seen somebody paying with there phone.

easypazz · 04-12-2019 5:32pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I've worked in a shop in a city centre and town in the past few months.
There is a difference
In the city you'd get loads of card payments and people paying with there phones.
In the town you'd get nearly all cash payments and the card payments you get are generally people who work in the city during the week. I don't think I've ever seen somebody paying with there phone.

And 5 years ago it was probably the same ratio in the city as it is in the country town now.

There is a lag but the trend is only going one way.

Somebody made a good point about chippers and takeaways, very few of them take card.

Chancer3001 · 04-12-2019 5:35pm

paying with card for petrol.....tank is full at 44.56eur......hmmm, id better round it up to 45euro.

makes no sense but I do it every single time

easypazz · 04-12-2019 5:39pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

paying with card for petrol.....tank is full at 44.56eur......hmmm, id better round it up to 45euro.

makes no sense but I do it every single time

can you hit 45.00 every time?

That's the challenge in doing it.

shmeee · 04-12-2019 5:45pm

Ended up on a booze in Lisdoonvarna recently, no ATM in the town, cash only. And the Local Hotel would give you cash back if you paid a 5er "fee", so €100 cost €105.

Klare, rare as it comes sure!

AulWan · 04-12-2019 7:33pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

paying with card for petrol.....tank is full at 44.56eur......hmmm, id better round it up to 45euro.

makes no sense but I do it every single time

I've switched to a petrol station where they have pay at the pump with your card. It is so much handier and faster then having to go in a queue up to pay for petrol.

Frees up the pump quicker for the next customer too.

maccydoodies · 04-12-2019 7:39pm

My GP surgery who is part of a chain of 3 surgeries doesn't take card in any of them. The girl that comes to my house to do my nails does. Go figure.

Berserker5 · 04-12-2019 10:49pm

easypazz wrote: »

And 5 years ago it was probably the same ratio in the city as it is in the country town now.

There is a lag but the trend is only going one way.

Somebody made a good point about chippers and takeaways, very few of them take card.

Lads getting takeaways and half hour trying to pay with card pissed drunk

AndrewJRenko · 04-12-2019 11:15pm

AulWan wrote: »

I've switched to a petrol station where they have pay at the pump with your card. It is so much handier and faster then having to go in a queue up to pay for petrol.

Frees up the pump quicker for the next customer too.

Tesco had these about ten years ago, but took them away. I guess they really want to get you into the shop to spend more, as the margins on the fuel itself are pretty tight.

AulWan · 05-12-2019 11:43am

Berserker5 wrote: »

Lads getting takeaways and half hour trying to pay with card pissed drunk

Half an hour? I think you are exaggerating, just a little!

Nigel Fairservice · 09-12-2019 1:49pm

I'm in Sweden at the moment. I've seen shops here with signs saying cash not accepted. You'd never see that in Ireland!

09-12-2019 2:01pm

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I'm in Sweden at the moment. I've seen shops here with signs saying cash not accepted. You'd never see that in Ireland!

I was in Japan recently, one of the most technologically advanced countries on earth, most shops, restaurants, pubs and taxis do not take cards, cash only.

partyguinness · 09-12-2019 2:06pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I was in Japan recently, one of the most technologically advanced countries on earth, most shops, restaurants, pubs and taxis do not take cards, cash only.

I was in Rotterdam last year and a good few places did not take card and those that did not take VISA- only Mastercard. We only learnt this in the pubs. My Dutch BIL said that VISA is not popular for whatever reason.

Alun · 09-12-2019 2:09pm

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I'm in Sweden at the moment. I've seen shops here with signs saying cash not accepted. You'd never see that in Ireland!

I was in Iceland a couple of years ago for 4 days. I never once used cash, nor do I even know what Icelandic currency looked like because I never saw any or saw anyone else use it.

Alun · 09-12-2019 2:11pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I was in Rotterdam last year and a good few places did not take card and those that did not take VISA- only Mastercard. We only learnt this in the pubs. My Dutch BIL said that VISA is not popular for whatever reason.

The Dutch banks seem fixed on Maestro as their payment method. I still have a Dutch bank account from when I lived there and you can't actually get a Visa debit card at all, only credit cards.

chooey · 01-06-2022 10:54pm

not sure if this is the correct thread to put this in but my dad phoned me tonight and said that the builder that he's planning on using for a job he's getting done has advised him that he will do a cash deal for him where he will pay cash and they will split the vat so I think my dad is only paying 7.5% instead of the 13.5% he would usually pay. Surely this is taking the Mickey. I've advised him not to do it but surely if he was paying in cash he wouldn't be paying any vat instead of paying only some of it. I've advised him to walk away

fritzelly · 01-06-2022 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147083#Comment_119147083

In other words the builder gets an additional 7.5% for the job and think of when there may be a problem with the job

riclad · 02-06-2022 1:12am

There's expense involved in having a credit card machine, I don't think it's just to avoid paying tax, you can still ask for a receipt. It's only small local shops that do this. I think you mean nixers, I don't know that word foxers. In China beggars use apps to accept money,. I think in 10 years time it'll be hard to pay for anything with cash you'll need an app or a credit card. I would presume revenue would be checking up on phone shops and salons.

02-06-2022 2:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147083#Comment_119147083

Walk away. Your da might think he's saving money at first glance, but if the builder is a cowboy (which he might be if he's going down this road) fux the whole thing up then your da has no financial recompense. You can only pursue the builder for what you can prove you paid him, and like I said if you go the way of cash-in-hand payments then enjoy your so-called VAT savings when your roof collapses after rain.

fritzelly · 02-06-2022 3:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147439#Comment_119147439

Taking debit cards can work out cheaper or at the very least the same as cash with less hassle (credit cards depends on your contract)

Cash only shops

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