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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #15602
    Rocko
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Rocko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144380#Comment_119144380

    Last Sat was bad for Leinster but a big wake up call for the Irish rugby team

    This pack lost in a big game to La Rochelle. I can't see this pack beating the All Blacks.



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    #15603
    phily2002
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    It's great to have so much competition in some places. This tour will be brilliant to get some younger players experience. Sub props and 10 is still the biggest worry. Injuries to Porter or Furlong will be a disaster at the world Cup but worryingly no one else looks like they could step up against SA and France(NZ might be the better draw for us tbh). Still a long way off and someone might burst through.

    Think the test team rows will be Ryan and Beirne unless Henderson finishes the season very strongly. In truth it's a very strong position for us with lots of younger players putting their hand up also.



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    #15604
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146014#Comment_119146014

    My own take is that RWC squads are so tight, I don’t think you have room for younger guys for an opportunity to cap them; you need guys who can come in cold and deliver. Earls fits that bill to a tee for me.

    Im obviously biased and want to see him hit 100 caps but I don’t think his performance levels have dropped at all.



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    #15605
    phily2002
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145695#Comment_119145695

    Think Larmour will travel to NZ, his attacking game is brilliant, he should get decent gametime in the remaining games(once they win).

    Would also like to see Haley get a chance, he's probably unlucky to have not got a cap yet.



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    #15606
    Must love hardship
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146171#Comment_119146171

    I think Leinster missed a trick not having Larmour as their 23rd man last weekend... and I hope he gets a run of games in the URC.

    Lowe was clearly not 100% and yet played the full 80 and Frawley was left kicking his heals for 80 minutes larmour could have made a better impact off the bench against a tiring La rochelle pack.

    Rog used his bench much better than leinster



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    #15607
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146130#Comment_119146130

    I can't see this pack beating the All Blacks.

    Absolutely. There's simply no way Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier and Jack Conan could beat the ABs. It never has happened and it never will.



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    #15608
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146171#Comment_119146171

    I think Larmour will definitely travel to NZ as well, but I think he is down the pecking order in Farrell’s thinking at the moment with regards the RWC. I’d say at least Lowe, Hansen, Conway are ahead of him. Then there’s Earls, Stockdale and Baloucoune also with regards wing and Lowry for FB.

    He has all the tools to get himself into the RWC squad tho. He’s probably got the best footwork of any Irish player.



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    #15609
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145704#Comment_119145704

    It's mental. He doesn't reach the same heights as last season so therefore he is playing sh*te.

    I've said it before, Irish sports fans (not just rugby) are a very fickle bunch.



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    #15610
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146702#Comment_119146702

    Ah c’mon. The back row is a super competitive position. Any drop in form there, maybe more than any other position, is likely to see shouts for someone else to get an opportunity.

    That doesn’t make fans fickle. It means we have some serious options there.



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    #15611
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147248#Comment_119147248

    Don't 'ah c'mon' me when the post I was replying to was related to 'houdini' remarks.

    By completely ignoring that you're not arguing in good faith whatsoever. I never said anything about others performing well. Anyone would be stupid to suggest otherwise.

    However, to suggest the current incumbent is playing sh*te just because he's not hit the Lions form is nonsense, and to try ignore that and make a completely different point that I nor the post I replied to was making is disingenuous.

    Conan is still playing well. There was always an element of Irish supporters that didn't want him playing at 8 and would look for any reason to call for him being dropped. It went very quiet when he became a test Lion, but it's rearing it's head again.



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    #15612
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147248#Comment_119147248

    Might be one for the "unpopular opinion" thread but I don't think we have massive depth in the back row, not yet anyway, especially if we consider Beirne and Baird as second rows.

    Coombes, Timoney, Prendergast all look great at provincial level but it's still very TBD if they can step up to test level. Hopefully we get a decent look at some or all of them in NZ.



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    #15613
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147266#Comment_119147266

    But you didn’t say “that poster who made the ‘Houdini’ remark is fickle”.

    Your comment was way, way broader than that.

    Which is the context I was replying to. So please don’t accuse me of arguing in bad faith / being disingenuous.

    Do you think Conan should be our starting 8 in NZ? I don’t. There are reasons for that.

    That’s the interesting part of the discussion here, instead of having a go at me.



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    #15614
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146014#Comment_119146014

    If Conway is injured, Earls could be needed as an experienced old head in the back three.

    It's a summer tour, we don't need "old experienced heads". The whole point is that other guys get experience.

    He's 3rd choice on both wings (at best) and will be 36 at the World Cup. He really shouldn't be brought.



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    #15615
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147553#Comment_119147553

    Do you think Conan should be our starting 8 in NZ?

    I would like to see POM/VDF/Doris get a run in at least one test. I think Conan has been playing pretty well but not enough to be nailed on, whereas POM can't really do much more to stake his claim.



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    #15616
    letsbefair
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭letsbefair


    Gas. Can’t see anything but our best 15 available in tests away against the Blacks. This is a daunting tour, with them fully motivated at revenge. Imagine the hype if the Lions were undertaking this tour.



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    #15617
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148151#Comment_119148151

    He's 3rd choice on both wings

    You forgot to add in my mind, when making your usual declarative statement. As if it somehow makes it fact.



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    #15618
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Earls covers centre too with Farrell's Ireland when he's fit - he's a lock for that 23 jersey for atleast two of the Summer tests I'd say.

    Sig.png



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    #15619
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    From what we've seen lately Farrell's first choices would be Lowe and Conway with Hansen backup for both wings. Earls is still ahead of Baloucoune for now as a bench option at least. It's hard to know where a fit Stockdale features. JOB is probably slightly ahead of Larmour and McElroy is maybe getting close. Probably missing some obvious wingers.



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    #15620
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148797#Comment_119148797

    He's behind Conway and Baloucoune for 14, and behind Lowe and Hansen for 11.



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    #15621
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Larmour will make the plane, imo. He's been very good all year. Injury ruined his season. I reckon Earls will go to and may get the 23 jersey.



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    #15622
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148856#Comment_119148856

    How do you know he’s behind Baloucoune?



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    #15623
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148856#Comment_119148856

    In your opinion. There is nothing in recent selections that would back that up.



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    #15624
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148901#Comment_119148901

    I mean, Baloucoune started v Argentina, scored a hat trick v Toulouse away, scored 10 tries this season and has had a much better season in general.

    I guess I don't "know" with 100% certainty that he's ahead. But the evidence suggests he is.

    Again, it's nothing personal against Earls who I've always been a massive fan of. But you can't just ignore the fact that for a winger he is very old and we have lots of younger options who are just as good. And at this stage in the cycle we should be giving them the minutes.



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    #15625
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148924#Comment_119148924

    And Earls was in the 23 for NZ, the bigger game.

    Equally Earls was injured during the 6 Nations. Was Baloucoune?

    And Earls just got a central contract.

    I don’t think it’s in any way definitive that Baloucoune is ahead of him.



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    #15626
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148924#Comment_119148924

    Earls has had a very injury disrupted season.

    I mean, you could argue that Baloucoune was involved in the summer, involved in the autumn, but then saw Hansen parachuted in ahead of him for the 6N and conclude that Farrell doesn't really rate him that much.



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    #15627
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ireland going into a world cup with Earls aged 36, Healy aged 36, Murray 35 and Sexton aged 38! Yea! We got this!

    Not that I see them all going. It's crazy, imo. We have no chance with an age profile like this.

    That's why I feel that the N.Z tour should be used to blood younger players. The lads I've mentioned have all been in a qf and lost. Time to look at the other options. Or, repeat the same dross we always do.



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    #15628
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148966#Comment_119148966

    And Earls just got a central contract

    I don't think you can read anything into central contracts as a guide to pecking order.

    Murray is on a central contract yet JGP is clearly ahead of him

    POM is on a central contract yet Doris and VDF are ahead of him

    Earls is on a central contract yet Lowe and Hansen are ahead of him

    Now that I think of it, it's interesting that all the Munster lads get central contracts without being first choice for Ireland. I think central contracts have evolved into a way of helping provinces to keep their important players, while keeping them off the province's wage bill. If they were still just given to important players on the Ireland team, JGP, Lowe and VDF would be on them. And Murray, Earls and POM wouldn't be.



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    #15629
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149018#Comment_119149018

    The new Zealand tour is about best preparing us for a world Cup not for blooding younger players. Going into a world Cup with multiple players in their mid to late 30s shouldn't be seen as a problem especially if you look at most sides who've won world cups. All had plenty of older, very experienced players Involved

    Every irish player has been to world Cup quarter and lost. None k ow anything different. Just bringing in new players won't necessarily be anything different



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    #15630
    AdamD
    Registered Users Posts: 12,631 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    We're stacked for back 3 players, no way should we be putting time into Earls at this stage.



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    #15631
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149147#Comment_119149147

    We're not putting time into Earls, Earls is ready & very capable for the World Cup and the IRFU have signed him up for it.

    Post World Cup we should start a new cycle of development of players and Earls should not be involved after that.



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