Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is it time to join Nato

Options
1…5859616364…152

Comments

  • Options
    #1802
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149242#Comment_119149242

    The last part of your post is accurate but not complete. We cannot monitor our airspace or our maritime area. You will have seen that I referred to the RAF cover in my first post. Thankfully no part of the Defence of the EU is dependent on Ireland. We are effectively a client state of the UK. You will have seen my comment on the nature of Irish society today.

    My comments on the UK are upsetting for those who won’t face reality. The UK is attempting to leverage its Defence capabilities against the EU even over Ukraine. You may have seen even the Polish President warned against its attempts to divide the EU. The EU cannot afford to be extorted by such a partner over its Defence. In short, people see through the spin and propaganda to the reality.



  • Options
    #1803
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149528#Comment_119149528

    Ireland is not even a paper tiger. We have no capacity to defend ourselves and unlike every European nation we have headbangers who don't think that a capacity to defend ourselves is necessary just so that people who read Fintan O'Toole columns can feel good about our place in the world.



  • Options
    #1804
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149526#Comment_119149526

    It was a Russian naval group, comprising of a number of ships, so it wasn't just 'one' ship.

    Russia is free to sail its entire navy 150 km off the coast of Ireland legally. No one will stop them. We are there for the taking, if they so want and we are now a weak link sticking out like a sore thumb now that Finland and Sweden who both have a much better military than us, are on the cusp of joining NATO.

    But I guess ignorant bliss on a leafy middle class suburb is lovely this time of year :)



  • Options
    #1805
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    What foreign power apart from the britain would ever want to occupy here? In hypothetical scenario where Russians landed. What would they do? What would there motive here to be here? Never in a million years would we see them as us and vice versa.


    Then a few of the nuts here will say what happens if we get attacked for no other reason than a foreign power flexing its muscles. You would have to be insane to belive in that. If any foreign power just nuked a neutral country to flex its muscles then it would become very evident there is a lose cannon that has to be taken out. You really think russia would drop a nuke on a neutral country like Ireland with no motive and powers like the US and even their allies China would watch as the whole world is put under threat from a nut.This is so away with the fairys.


    The reality is only the britain would have a historic/cultural motive to invade us. But considering today they regret the day they did probably means its unlikely to happen again.


    Again there is no need for us to join nato and our nation for the most part does not want to get in wars. I know there is alot living here cant handle this as they are more aligned to a nation of people from the island to our east which has a history of wars and would feel more at home if we would copy this. But the irish dont want or need to get in world wars. Get over it.



  • Options
    #1806
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149790#Comment_119149790

    For a start it would give them unfettered access to the North Atlantic, like an unsinkable aircraft carrier. This power would then be able to project power across the Atlantic.

    This is one of the reasons why Taiwan is so important and if the Chinese take it, it will open up the entire Pacific to the Chinese Navy.

    For an island, nation or Navy is a joke.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1807
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    So they attack us as a stepping stone to attacking the US? Yes this is a very likely scenario. Why didn't this happen during the height of the cold war? Why didn’t hitler have this brainwave. We were a neutral sitting duck then too.



  • Options
    #1808
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703566#Comment_118703566

    Let's wait until we get burgled before investing in an alarm.

    Good job!



  • Options
    #1809
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118706536#Comment_118706536

    I'd say that will revise strongly upwards after Putin's smash and grab attempt



  • Options
    #1810
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149812#Comment_119149812

    Taiwan is part of China though.

    It's just a renegade province. Perhaps you haven't heard of the One China Policy.

    Fortunately, China isn't a sort of nation on an ideological crusade, like the US is (at times).

    China doesn't particularly care what sort of government other countries have. They aren't in the business of toppling governments, instigating coups and weaponizing everything within their reach. They are no threat to us.



  • Options
    #1811
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149939#Comment_119149939

    Really? And it's building bases on contested islands closer to other jurisdictions than it's own is all fine and dandy?



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1812
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149790#Comment_119149790

    Their motive ? I would say they would be delighted to be a few miles from one of the main NATO members and on both flanks of the EU. They would do exactly what they did in Cuba and install missiles. If you think they wouldn't or somehow see no benefit in it, you clearly aren't paying attention to current events in Ukraine.



  • Options
    #1813
    eastie17
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭eastie17


    Yes we absolutley should, I am actually surprised that Putn didnt in fact just for the craic, send 20K troops our way, land in Galway or Cork and see how far they got. We're not a NATO country so as long as he doesnt go North no-one would help us under the current rules of engagement.



  • Options
    #1814
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149960#Comment_119149960

    Why didn't USSR do this in the height of cold war??? Because it is such an easy thing to do with so many benefits.



  • Options
    #1815
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149948#Comment_119149948

    Oh are you worried they'll do that on Rockall?



  • Options
    #1816
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭eire4


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147198#Comment_119147198

    Haha please stop I am laughing too much. Right yes this "hacking group" were just acting completely innocently of their own accord in that wonderful authoritarian dictatorship that is Russia.

    Technically yes they were in international waters but within waters considered under Irish control for economic and environmental purposes.

    No need for you to be afraid about Ireland not joining NATO. I never said we should. What I talked about was the fact that currently Ireland's refusal to spend the money to provide a creditable defense and security of our country means we are free loading and behaving in an utterly selfish way towards are partners in the EU. We are part of a collective in the EU from which we garner tremendous benefits. Benefits we would not be able to enjoy if we were on our own. We live in a democracy which for all its shortcomings is doing quite well overall and allows us to live in a free and open society. Authoritarian dictatorships like Russia have become an increasing problem in the world and the facts are while it is highly unlikely Russia will invade Ireland directly that does not change the fact that their disgusting behaviour is a direct threat to us as a country as they showed with the cyberattack on our health care system recently and with the fact that their invasion of Ukraine and their grotesque behaviour has had significant effects on our economy in terms of driving up prices and hurting us financially very significantly.



  • Options
    #1817
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149964#Comment_119149964

    Now what would these 20k Russian troops do here exactly? What would their end goal be?



  • Options
    #1818
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149812#Comment_119149812

    Correct, and they wouldn't even need to take the whole of Ireland. Just capture the Shannon region with the airport and the estuary and bomb the rest of the country to pieces.



  • Options
    #1819
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149908#Comment_119149908

    No, it's about projecting power.

    The Chinese want to take Taiwan so it can project power across the Pacific, it doesn't want to attack Hawaii or California. If you don't know what 'projecting power' is I suggest you educate yourself a little first, then respond back.



    Hitler didn't attack us because the Royal Navy was in its way. Maybe you missed all the stuff about the Battle of Britain....!?

    It's clear your knowledge of Current Affairs and history is next to none.



  • Options
    #1820
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150067#Comment_119150067

    Yes, true. Just annex the Shannon region or Cork Harbour and sit tight for a few years or decades. Lots of underwater telecom cables right off the coast of Cork too. A vitally important strategic part of the world that corridor is, but the ignorant bliss types would rather drink their sherry and brandy in their leafy suburbs.



  • Options
    #1821
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,133 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I think it's gas that we want to be BFFs with EU and the UK and USA but we don't want to contribute at all militarily. Russian expansion is a threat to us all. We're either on the side of democracy or dictatorships, I don't know why we think we get a special pass. It wasn't friendly neutral nations that liberated Auschwitz and Dachau. Every other country has to spend on military and they still manage so why shouldn't we?



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1822
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭indioblack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149549#Comment_119149549

    I don't see post-Brexit Britain as the new bogeyman of Europe.

    Historically there are members of the EU who held that position.

    If you consider the Republic to be a client state of the UK the answer is - don't be.

    I still don't see Ireland becoming a member of NATO - not with the UK in it.



  • Options
    #1823
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149982#Comment_119149982

    Nope, but I am more fearful now of what Russia is capable of given their most recent moves for land that is not theirs.

    If you want to just lie down and die, feel free. But I wouldnt be inclined to give up anything without a good fight.



  • Options
    #1824
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149939#Comment_119149939

    In reality Taiwan is about as much part of China as Ballydehob.

    It's armed to the teeth and won't give up its democracy and current political dispensation without a fight - and most importantly, the US won't either. Taiwan falling means the peace in Asia is shattered. Japan and probably South Korea will go nuclear overnight.

    Yeah, yeah, all Western nations tiptoe around the one China policy so we can flog them Volkswagens / Gucci bags / and food, but that will all come crashing down if Beijing moves on the island.

    Anyone with their heads screwed on should not want Taiwan to fall. Mainland Chinese should understand it means tens of thousands of young sailors at the bottom of the Taiwan straights in the opening salvos alone.

    Apart from what it would do to the architecture of peace in Asia, Taiwan is the most democratic and liberal country in Asia. It's a gem of a place that has cultivated its democracy and society in the face of a lot of challenges. It is worth defending against sh*tbags in Beijing.



  • Options
    #1825
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150185#Comment_119150185

    Ireland is a joke militarily and that’s not a criticism of the extraordinary men and women of our DF who have sustained a culture of professional excellence despite political incompetence and malevolence and a civil service determined to destroy our Independence and capacity to defend ourselves.

    The UK is not to be trusted with EU Defence. Pity. Finest light infantry in the world. A political upper class that govern for the elite.



  • Options
    #1826
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭indioblack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150343#Comment_119150343

    NATO is the defence of Europe. The UK is a member of NATO.

    What is the Republic's position regarding the defence of Europe?



  • Options
    #1827
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Are you for real? China views Taiwan as part of thier country and does not recognise it as such. Historically they were one country. That is thier main motive to invade Taiwan. This is basic stuff mark and you say I have a lack of knowledge. You should stop making a fool of yourself and leave this thread.



  • Options
    #1828
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,824 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793276#Comment_118793276

    Even pro British and anti nationalist parties like Labour are the most staunchly Anti NATO.


    I think at the least we should be aligned and have a good Navy and radar systems.


    We need them, regardless of the fact that the world is once more returning to being a more violent place.



  • Options
    #1829
    Tonesjones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149989#Comment_119149989

    Why would the Russian government hack the Irish health service for a ransom under threat of releasing data?

    Do all crime networks have government links in all countries or is it just in Russia?

    Yes technically they were in international waters and even moved when enough people started to whinge about their presence. I can remember one guy in particular complaining because they would scare the fish.

    You say the war in Ukraine has hurt us financially yet are calling for us to join nato which defacto means spending billions.

    It won't be happening



  • Options
    #1830
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149975#Comment_119149975

    I'd like to think the approach to the defence of this island is based on more than "well they didn't do it last time". Ireland is a strategic location, it is vulnerable and Russia are led by a guy who is both greedy and a little unhinged. Long standing neutrals Finland and Sweden have read the room and decided it's time to twist, I think that says it all



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1831
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,883 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150884#Comment_119150884

    (On HSE "hack"...so kind of off topic)...They didn't I expect. Some of their pets (who supposedly earn their money by such activity) might have messed up.

    The fact that afair keys to decrypt the data were given over afterwards suggests that.

    Perhaps they didn't appreciate HSE is a national heath service rather than some fat Western European private or voluntary hospital/medical group to extort? The structure of our health services (a horrible mutant hybrid of for profit, voluntary, and state run) could be confusing (!?)

    Anyway slightly more on topic after that incident it seems clear Ireland needs to pay much more attention and spend more money on protecting itself (and it is an aspect of "defence") from this sort of thing irrespective of any NATO debate.



Advertisement