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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    I didn't. It's something Putin said on Feb 24 I beleive.

    In my mind though, there are plenty of public symbols to nazi's the Ukrainains have stood up since the Maidan coup that could be rid of quite easily.


    A lot of this is low hanging fruit:

    Kyiv — In 2016, a major Kyiv boulevard was renamed after Bandera. The renaming is particularly obscene since the street leads to Babi Yar, the ravine where Nazis, aided by Ukrainian collaborators, exterminated 33,771 Jews in two days, in one of the largest single massacres of the Holocaust.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Neither side is really "winning". Russia's goal was (quite plainly) the collapse of the entire country. That didn't happen, so they have been forced to keep downsizing their objectives to what they are now. This is the third or fourth iteration of their pincer movement on the East, each smaller than the last.

    Putin hasn't so declared war yet for numerous reasons. It has benefits but also drawbacks. Likewise it's not a magic button for manpower, Russia seems to be contending with serious morale issues and infighting. Ukraine isn't without it's issues either, especially in terms of equipment and supplies.

    I expect Russia to keep making gains in the East for now, but I definitely think time is against them. They are bringing up T64's and throwing Wagner mercenaries at the front, not a good sign. They are also having problems in e.g. Kherson where the Ukrainians have liberated around 20 settlements recently.

    "DeNazification" was never a goal, likewise preventing some fictitious genocide, those were just emotive pieces of propaganda to generate support for an invasion that was going to happen regardless.

    I also think we might see some surprises from Russia, such as a massing up North for something or nothing (if they can spare it) to tie up defenders.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    That's not explicitly true though. We are inferring Russia's goals. There have only been general statements from Putin such as the De-Nazification.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    There's a degree of "if it quacks like a duck" going on here, that can't be naively ignored. Coupled with the entirety of human experience Vis a vis motives for invasion. No, Putin is not going to say "well, controlling Ukraine's grain harvest would be great for us". Villains scarcely think they're the bad guys in their own story. Though IIRC he's a believer in Historical Russia in terms of borders - which claims Ukraine as rightful territory.

    By way of the most obvious recent example, Iraq 2003 was never openly declared as a blatant resource grab but we all know the result, especially once Haliburton and the like came swooping into the aftermath and its sundry connection. Publicly it was about faked intel and blather about freedom and democracy.

    Christ unless I'm truly misremembering my Roman history, Julius Caesar invaded Gaul under the pretence of protecting against migrating tribes, the giant piles of Gaulish gold he amassed a fluke no doubt.

    No, we can't know Putin's exact goals, and probably won't until he dies; and we certainly can't know his state of mind in underestimating Western response... but to loop back. If it quacks like a land grab, and smells like a land grab...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It wouldn't make sense that they made a lightning attack on Kyiv, brought riot police with them, dug in to Chernobyl, booked Kyiv restaurants and wheeled out Yanukovych to install as new leader in Ukraine because they "only" wanted just to take Donbas and portions of the South.

    Like Hungary, Czechoslovakia and most recently Afghanistan it's very likely they expected Ukraine to fall quickly. In fact, most analysts expected the same. Putin has boasted in the past he could take Ukraine in 2 weeks. Didn't happen, and now they are on, I don't know what now, plan D or E or something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Some faintly good news, question now if it will hold or if the Russians will pull some shenanigans




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    I broadly agree except for the goal of controlling grain - a number of reasons that ukraine either as far as dnieper, or as far as the carpathians is a target for Russia.

    Firstly, defence. Much easier to defend a geographical border like a large river or mountain range, than a mostly large open plain.

    Secondly, control of sea of azov (ideally they would have had the whole Ukraine cost & control of black sea)

    Third the crimean canal, without it crimea was near useless having insufficient fresh water. The land bridge also to DPR and Russia also ties into #2

    4th priority would be the resources - oil & gas being the most prominent. Black sea fields and east Ukraine fields of gas are quite large, mineral wealth in Donbas also, controlling grain would be well down the list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    You would want to be a simpleton if you equate questioning a report that something occurred with pure denial. come and explain in person.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,198 ✭✭✭Good loser


    So you think it didn't occur? Rape by Russian soldiers. And it's important to get this clarified?

    I fail to see any importance.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just an insight into what the Ukraine was actually like post US backed coup..

    (And this isn't war time propaganda designed to trigger you emotionally..)


    ##MOD NOTE##

    Don't attach files directly like this please - Put in a link.

    Thanks

    Post edited by Quin_Dub on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Can you post a link to the document rather than the document itself. I’d be very wary of download an unsourced a pdf posted by you for security reasons

    I have friends that left Ukraine just before the population ousting the Russian puppet. They left because of the Russian puppet destroying the state and making life very difficult for ordinary people. I’m guessing that your pdf is from Russian sources due to your support for the war criminal regime there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Strange how everyone is obsessed about how to get ukraine grain out. They would be wiser to move it within ukraine bit more westwards if they not done it already and keep it for their own people as they will need it anyway. It seems someone wants to make money out of it.

    There are more important issues to be "concerned" about than this current looting of ukraine grain reserves. What about grain which will not be harvested and more importantly grain which was not planted? This will lead to even bigger problems by the end of the year, and the next, which ukraine could comfortably ride out and even make more money in the process if they keep it home. This "corridor" more looks to me as a plot to get ukraine grain for the pennies on the dollar as soon as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭McGiver



    “We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    All that one needs to know about the Russian regime (any - Tzarist, Leninist, Stalinist, post-Stalinist, Putinist).

    Nothing "official" Russian sources say is ever true. Anyone who supports here the Russian propaganda is directly supporting genocidal backward primitive inhumane regime and is a traitor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭myfreespirit


    The UN body, World Food Programme (wfp.org) has, predictably a more accurate analysis of the effect that the russian attack on Ukraine is having on food security and states:

    “Truly, failure to open those ports in Odesa region will be a declaration of war on global food security,” said Beasley. “And it will result in famine and destabilization and mass migration around the world.”

    It has nothing to do with "a plot to get the ukraine grain for the pennies on the dollar", unless you believe that World Food Programme executive director David Beasley is corrupt and in on the plot you imagine...

    https://www.wfp.org/stories/war-ukraine-wfp-chief-renews-call-open-black-sea-ports-global-food-security-stake



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭McGiver


    The Seanead declares Russian invasion a genocide and joins several Central and Eastern European countries + Canada to do so 👍🏻

    further agrees that:


    - the acts carried out by the Russian military meet the criteria for genocide set out in the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and as such, the illegal invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation is an act of genocide;


    calls for:


    - Governments around the world to maintain and strengthen sanctions on the Russian Federation while working to end the imports of Russian oil, gas and coal which are funding the Russian war machine against the Ukrainian people and its territories; and


    - the political leadership of the Russian Federation to be held accountable for its crimes in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    A folk-rap fusion monstrosity. Dross but then so were all the other songs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    The Crimean referendum was not held under armed corecion or at gunpoint as some on here are falsely trying to assert. Have you been to Crimea? Do you know anybody there? Because I do. They said that there was absolutely zero interference or coercion surrounding the referendum. They were jubilant at the result. Not everyone was but the majority were. And as for your claim that no referendum should be conducted as swiftly as the Crimean one...why no? Who are you to dictate when people should vote for their own destiny? I might remind you that the Azov thugs were on their way to Crimea to slaughter them. Expediency was of the essence. Once the vote was passed the Kiev cutthroats halted as they knew they would be facing Russian commandos if they set one foot inside Crimea to embark on their reign of terror.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It was held under arms, under occupation by a foreign power, in 10 days, they didn't have any option to maintain the status quo, no proper international monitoring, no proper public discourse, no proper period to inform all sides. It doesn't matter if 110% of Crimeans wanted to join Russia, they didn't have any democratic process on it.

    The fact that certain individuals support fake "referendums" held by totalitarian states gives a hint into where their principles stand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Field east


    Did the occupying force not bus out of Crimea Some of the population for a ‘holiday ‘ until the referendum was over!!!!!!!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,470 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    A total pack of lies from the poster of such previous lies as (utterly without merit or foundation) that Ukraine killed 15000 in the disputed regions pre-invasion.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    any opinion on Khrushchev’s 1954 referendum DJ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    As the Ukrainians predicted for years, Russia is there to colonise them.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Should have remained neutral and implemented the Minsk accords in retrospect I suppose..



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭myfreespirit


    Implementing any Treaty or agreement made with the criminal russian regime would simply be a complete and total waste of time. The russian regime is wholly untrustworthy; they are liars through and through.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    From the Beeb:


    Ukraine says the Russian army looted or damaged more than 1,000 computers at the Chernobyl nuclear power station and stole trucks and radiation dosimeters.

    Chernobyl's information director Vitaliy Medved said nuclear equipment was not damaged and "regarding radiation safety everything is OK".

    The losses caused by the Russian occupation - now ended - are put at more than 1.6bn hryvnia (£44m; $54m).

    The explosion of a reactor at Chernobyl spread radiation across Europe in 1986.

    The decommissioned plant, north of Kyiv, lies near the Belarus border and was quickly occupied by Russian troops after their 24 February invasion.

    Russian forces controlled the plant for five weeks before withdrawing on 31 March.

    A team from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has just ended a visit to Chernobyl and its surrounding 2,700sq km (1,040sq mile) exclusion zone.

    An IAEA statement says they "provided support to their Ukrainian counterparts on radiation protection, safety of waste management and nuclear security".

    Ukraine's nuclear inspectorate has confirmed to the BBC that the Chernobyl site's radiation level is currently safe.

    In the exclusion zone, however, there are some radiation hotspots which Chernobyl's managers blame on the Russian military activity, as troops dug trenches and their vehicles churned up dust.

    Yevhen Kramarenko, head of the exclusion zone agency, said thousands of Russian vehicles including tanks had driven through the zone. He said Russia had based more than 1,000 soldiers at Chernobyl.


    I can see why the Ukrainians refer to them as "Orcs".



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Looks like the Ukrainians have taken possession of around 50% of Severodonetsk according to latest social media reports tonight. Things definitely not going quite the way the Russians planned - their media assumed up until yesterday the city was about to fall to Russian forces at any moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    Perfectly illustrated. A typical "rope a dope" maneuvre. The flipper-clapping circus seals on here would be the same if Mohammed Ali was in a corner, hands in front of face taking hits by someone. They'd be squealing "See, he's nothing...he's nobody" Completely clueless to the decoy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    And what about all the other products that many countries are reliant on Russia for. I'll give you an example...fertilizer. Without it crops will not grow. Or are you going to talk and talk more sh1t until you can spread manure all over the farms of Europe and Africa?



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