Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

Rebelside · 30-05-2022 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131338#Comment_119131338

His stock may be low in Waterford but outside there people will have a different view. Waterford have a habit of blaming management & responsibility never falls on the players. Would any other county down tools if the manager criticised them? It looks like Aussie will never cop on & yet he’s too big to be dropped. Bennett is moody & erratic…Curran is the latter. You’ll never get the 3 of them performing on the one day. And it’s compounded by Barron no longer able to be the midfield dynamo.

A lot of other counties would take him if he’s available, his own likely one of them

30-05-2022 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125008#Comment_119125008

Its a fairly open secret of a massive bust-up at training,some refused to do anymore running.....a row between the managers as regards dropping one high-profile player for poor conduct

Know of one player word put out was injured,whom most deffo was not

Cahill has big job on his hands to turn it around,and tbh i wouldnt blame him for walking,after what happened

what hope have we of ever winning anything with carryon like this.....reminds me of limerick under justin mccarthy,and the ill discipline/mass dropping needed to regain control....people sometimes forget,he barely missed renomination....i hope county board is strong enough to back whomever is over team next year,as there is upto half a dozen players,several top class,who have no place near county panel over conduct of last month

Montys return · 30-05-2022 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137282#Comment_119137282

One, you're not talking to a Waterford man there so bit much to be using his opinion as any indication on how Waterford people see Liam Cahill.

Two, I'm not much interested in County bashing but it's a bit rich to be going on about Waterfords penchant for blaming others when your own County went on strike in an amateur sport...twice.

PTH2009 · 30-05-2022 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137338#Comment_119137338

Who would want the job if all this information is known

The great return of Derek who will over look it because he understands the lads personally.

Peter Queally could be another Pauric Fanning type appointment which could be a disaster

Recent underage management teams didn't exactly set the world alight

The Ballygunner senior management team an option ?

30-05-2022 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137449#Comment_119137449

Derek mcgrath wont be coming back,the era of sweeper is over (no team won an all ireland using it),imagine playing 2 man forward vs limerick while they bypass the halfback line with long ball to that full forward line.

The u20 this year sickened me,2 good lads i know on it,and imo we were good enough to win it out,(watched final in pub in ennis)

It deosnt matter,who the management is,if players are gonna fcuk about,not put in effort and unable to 'motivate' emselves at this stage....no manager is gonna change it

I honestly think a clearout and 3 to 4 year rebuild is whats needed,we need focus the best county resources at underage next while imo

Mastermcgrath · 31-05-2022 5:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131281#Comment_119131281

no I’m saying a lot more mouthpieces seem to come out in force when a county wins or is winning. Applies to any county

you have in essence rested my case, thanks

callaway92 · 31-05-2022 7:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137498#Comment_119137498

A rebuild for Waterford isn’t what’s needed. They genuinely need to strike while the iron is hot so-to-speak, because the squad should be threatening an All-Ireland

Gluteus_Maximus · 31-05-2022 8:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137338#Comment_119137338

It’s deeply disappointing to read this. I was hoping it was just physical exhaustion from over training. And perhaps as you hint the training led to the bust up but players who think they are too big to follow management and coaching instructions should be dropped even if they are top notch.

I am assuming Aussie G and Dessie H were not in this category as I thought they gave their all this year.

Rebelside · 31-05-2022 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137342#Comment_119137342

I was addressing the point, not who made it or where the person was from.

You didn’t of course but just indulged in whataboutery.

All counties have screwups but the ones with two dozen or so AIs can absorb them as lessons learned. When the others have good teams they have to make hay and can’t afford screwups.

Montys return · 31-05-2022 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119138858#Comment_119138858

I'm addressing your point. What makes you think Cahill's stock has fallen in Waterford, when it was insinuated by someone not from the County and you specifically said "outside there people will have a different view"?

That wouldn't suit your attempt at Waterford bashing though of course. I've read enough on here about Kieran Kingston, Colm Bonnar and even Brian Cody in the past few weeks to know that clearly blaming managers is not unique to Waterford. When teams have disappointing results, everyone from players to managers get criticized.

31-05-2022 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137950#Comment_119137950

They have not a hope of winning with that panel,being beat off the field by panel players from clare deos not suggest anything approaching all ireland contenders

You wont win anything with players,who lose plot when things go againest em,and lose their way too easily ......its a county wide problem,acceptance of low standreds,we should been pushing for this years u20 (also should have won more than one u21 with that particular exceptional team few years ago),and been challenging harder for minor this year....instead we slumped out of both with barely a wimper,and no qs asked as regards performance levels and a grim acceptance,that this is the way it is,when it shouldnt be.......

even at football,we should be well above level we are at

you can only reward failure for so long,and we have been through some woeful hammerings,with that group of players,its never going to happen for them,depsite the obvious talent levels,when push,come to shove,all resources necessary aparently given,it still ends in utter demolition by clare,a 30 point defeat wouldnt have been a cause to complain last day in ennis

callaway92 · 31-05-2022 11:01pm

Dunno - not a Waterford man but I’m not having that. There’s a reason they’re being touted as the team with the best overall squad outside of Limerick

Stupid things can happen and the Round Robin was a mess. Maybe Cahill isn’t actually the man for ye, I don’t know, but I genuinely believe that squad has a high % chance of winning Liam McCarthy all going well

fuinneamh · 01-06-2022 10:04am

No need of a rebuild. There's a need of Cahill to learn from his mistakes and a reconciliation with the players needed too. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as it's his first ever round robin competition at any grade with a longer pre-season than the 2 Covid years. The methods that worked at U-20 and during the shortened Covid season have evidently physically broken players this year. The number of quad injuries are a proof of that. I'd back such a competitive winner as Cahill and Bevans to learn from this.

As a player though; I can understand the morale loss. You've flogged them as a manager in training, you do everything your told at a detriment to your teams performance and then the manager doesn't defend you afterwards in the media. You've breached the trust that the players have put in you with your behaviour as a manager.

Much as I hate Derek's utterings in the media; he totally understood that modern management is all about relationships with the players. So can the relationship be fixed? In a nutshell; it comes down to Stephen Bennett as he's symptomatic of the wider malaise. Cahill had him ticking 7 weeks ago. What happened in the meantime? Can Cahill get him back there? Does Stephen want Cahill to get him back there?

blueflame · 02-06-2022 10:48am

I do not know if even 10% of the rumours that have circulated are true, but reflecting on the last 8 years with the majority of this panel, my thoughts are as follows:

Derek knew the importance of relationships with players, but at times he went over the top - treating and protecting them at times as children rather than adults - he was a young manager and a teacher used to dealing with young adults, and he was only learning also - unfortunately in my view he failed to grasp the balance needed between relationship and management - this was was always something that was going to have to be addressed by new management.
Cahill is another young manager used to dealing with under 20s where your panel is revolving substantially every year - after a three year period your panel has probably changed by 90% - this allows for manager to put their stamp immediately on players and it can be easy keep them in tow for a year or two. Much more difficult when you are dealing with Senior Players who reasonably expect to be part of a panel for 5 - 7 years - tough love dosen't work quite as well, certainly over a longer period.
The panel, do have to "bond" and become unified so that if and when things go wrong there is a core that will drag people together to fight to the end out of respect for themselves and for supporters who travel the country spending hard Cash supporting them, irrelevant of the circumstances. - there will always be a day when everything goes wrong and that's when you have to dig in and show real character - not look for excuses.
The making or breaking of this team will not be the failure of the Munster Championship this year - it will be in how the deal with this. Cahill and his backroom team will surely realise and acknowledge that they made mistakes, this was really his first full year as a Senior Intercounty Manager where you had a full League and Championship campaign running one after the other., but he must be willing to accept and learn from the mistakes made - good managers are always learning from past mistakes and thus reduce the number of mistakes they make going forward, that's what turns good managers into great managers. The players must also learn that they can only "win together" and someone will always have a bad day - if at Senior Inter-county level you cannot totally trust the guys in the dressing room to pull you out of hole, or you yourself are not wiling to jump into that hole without hesitation to help a guy out - then you have no business being there either. Great Teams win All Ireland's because every member of the team plays their part and pulls in the same direction - from the Kit Manager right through to the Players Coaches and Manager- "you are all in this together and their must be total respect from top to bottom - if you do not have respect for everyone else - step away from the team and take up a sport like "Dart" where you can do it all on your own.
I would love to see Cahill and this panel tough it out - they have played some wonderful hurling and have given us fantastic days over the last three years and for me, we are only a small margin away from achieving that dream - if we learn from our mistakes!! - but in order to learn we first have to admit - I always think back to Justin's era, and have always felt it ended just too soon and in the wrong way - I believe had both parties not been so stubborn, we might just have gotten a lot closer in 2008 than that debacle of a Final - i would hate to see this relationship ending the same way.

SeanieW1977 · 03-06-2022 11:26am

Rebuild with what? The only competitive hurling match won underage this year was against Kerry.

people are under estimating how bad things are underage (minor & u20) in this county & there is a huge gap from u18&u21 not to mind from u17 & u20 that extra year makes a huge diff at that age.

the reality is when Liam Cahill is long gone and we are still doing the body Count from a players vs mgmt - these players will be running their clubs - Cahill will long be a distant memory.

thanks for your efforts liam but time to go

Asdfgh2020 · 03-06-2022 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152928#Comment_119152928

You are wrong in your first sentence…..U 17’s did beat limerick in the RR……your view is totally ‘glass half empty’…😡

liogairmhordain · 03-06-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152928#Comment_119152928

in fairness the minors had a good win over Limerick in Kilmallock in a knock-out game.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/waterford-book-place-in-munster-minor-final-with-comfortable-victory-over-limerick-while-clare-hammer-kerry-41590761.html

deise man · 03-06-2022 8:31pm

Think it was mentioned earlier that Liam Cahill is being interviewed on tg4 seo spoirt tonight at 9.55

03-06-2022 10:04pm

That u20 team this year,should have at a min won munster,and that all ireland was a v.poor match in terms of skill levels,honestly feel we were good enough to win it

Its into underage we need to be pouring resources,from management to coaches for skills,we cant keep rewarding failure at senior with another go next year....

the big plan seems to be,hope limerick fall a bit in standred and we catch em out for a handy all ireland,with the same team hockeyed by clare panelists.....im all for optimism,but jesus wept....

we're going nowhere with that team,no manager is going to get it out of players who cant motivate emselves to play munster hurling,20 mins to go vs cork,4 points down and ya just knew,they had no way back into the game,and letting cork walk through em....easy to hammer laois in league,but in do/die match,they were found wanting and badly.....no point in wasting sparce resources on that team,and the redevelopment of walsh park should be under review as its unlikely to sell out again for guts of a decade

PTH2009 · 03-06-2022 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155351#Comment_119155351

Looks like a right jolly up

Is it actually happening

JeffKenna · 03-06-2022 10:30pm

Seemed to suggest he's staying, who knows though.

PTH2009 · 03-06-2022 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155936#Comment_119155936

Who knows but if he does intend too they all need to meet up and have a meeting

Asdfgh2020 · 03-06-2022 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155850#Comment_119155850

You are one miserable individual……😡 just throw in the towel altogether is that it…..what way did you feel after the 2008 final or the 2016 Munster final……

KevIRL · 03-06-2022 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155953#Comment_119155953

As opposed to meeting up for not a meeting?

03-06-2022 10:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155958#Comment_119155958

What potential changes do you see occuring before next year,to put us as realistic all ireland contenders?

Exactly how much was won by waterford teams after 08 all ireland,and the fact we persevered with a sweeper post 2016 munster final is a testamont to nonsense,utterly obliterated by tipp,to extent we doubled down and needed a 2nd sweeper for full back....

Leading to eventaully standing on hill16,watching shane bennett repeating what murice shanahan done for years,chasing 3 backs on his own trying to win short puckout,this wasnt progress,

neither is running headlong into a swarm limerick defence,whom then dispossess you and score at other end....it would take a complete overhaul of tactics (unless do a shoot on sight like clare did in ennis and end up with crazy wide count) and a half dozen new physique type players,as most of this famous panel,is designed to fit into this running game...which simply deosnt work,and collaspes the min workrate marginally fall off

PTH2009 · 03-06-2022 10:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155983#Comment_119155983

BBQ should do it

All comes down to if the current panel want to play for the manager

Last thing we need is a strike like Cork in the past

Ian OB · 03-06-2022 11:40pm

https://twitter.com/SportTG4/status/1532840160940933121?t=9ghCjCrZZVwSyRuT8iDEeg&s=19

Might be interest here

TheScoringGoal · 04-06-2022 7:43am

From what I'm hearing the majority of the players want him back.

decies · 04-06-2022 10:01am

Look ideally you wouldn’t be wanting to keep changing your manager every 3/4 years but what happened in the championship honestly goes beyond excuses the fact that it’s happened to Waterford probably means the fallout will be different then the serial all ireland winning teams . It’s only being a few weeks but it seems like months since the last game .I think a month is long enough to find out what happened . I was one of the more optimistic people on here about the chances of this team delivering as opposed to the Debbie downers about the dangers of losing to cork , they turned out to be right and I was wrong . Fast forward now my confidence now like many is shattered like a thousand glass fragments on the floor . Personally and I doubt this will happen us mere plebs need a statement from management and players saying where it all went wrong and correct any obvious mistakes in future . Am not being negative if nothing OFFICIALLY comes out and addressed and we just shrug shoulders and go again under current set up,to be honest I fear we might be doing even more damage even if it’s the right thing to do .

Deskjockey · 04-06-2022 10:09am

I hope Liam stays on, and looking at that clip it seems he wants to.

Obviously mistakes were made this year but hopefully these can be fixed and make a better go of it next season. He said he wanted silverware this year, he got that but not the silverware we are all crying out for. No league distractions next year, full focus on championship only.

Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

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