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Sweden avoiding lockdown

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    #9752
    therapist3
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭therapist3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137543#Comment_119137543

    Well seeing as that's a nonsensical answer and those criticising Sweden haven't come up with anything then that tells us simply Sweden was right



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    #9753
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146614#Comment_119146614

    You haven't come up with anything to disprove my comment. Its as valid as any other.



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    #9754
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It never occured to me that someone would dispute that Sweden did better than Peru.



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    #9755
    therapist3
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭therapist3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119146854#Comment_119146854

    The absence of proof almost always means there is none. People are criticising Sweden it is on them to come up with evidence as to why

    If you are accused of causing harm to people it is up to the investigators to provide evidence to prosecute. That is the difference and if you will not or cannot prove Sweden was the bloodbath as it has been painted to be then your point is a failure and you are deluding yourself



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    #9756
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There's 300+ pages in this thread drenched in statistics and reports. The one thing its not short of is evidence. No one can read or understand it for you however.

    You'd have to link to these claims your referring to.



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    #9757
    therapist3
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭therapist3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151633#Comment_119151633

    I've read all the pages and there is a distinct lack of evidence showing Sweden's strategy led to a blood bath of any inkling

    There's one relevant dataset and that is the entire world because it affected everyone so your statistically significant comparison will be with all countries; yet nobody posts any such data showing Sweden did poorly with due regard, so the only conclusion is they were right



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    #9758
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So no link to prove your claims. I guess the only conclusion is you can't.

    Still looking for ugly friends to compare Sweden with... try Peru....



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    #9759
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156377#Comment_119156377

    A lot of people have a religious like belief in hard lockdowns. Sweden is very inconvenient for them as they didn't lockdown and they did better than most of Europe. So people try to find comfort in any way that they can. On this very thread, I have seen the below excuses made.

    1) Sweden actually DID lockdown. Despite the fact that its not true many have claimed it.

    2) The Swedish people are super responsible and locked themselves down because.. culture.

    3) You have to compare Sweden to Norway only, during a particular timeframe that makes Sweden look bad only.

    No amount of figures, data or science will convince them that Sweden did ok. To do so they would have to reluctantly admit that maybe hard lockdowns weren't all that neccesary.



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    #9760
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So Sweden is lifting a restriction they didn't have. Makes sense.


    https://www.government.se/press-releases/2022/03/sweden-to-lift-ban-on-entry-from-all-countries/


    It should be impossible to pick a timeframe that Sweden did bad, if they never did bad.



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    #9761
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119133354#Comment_119133354

    And what was the fallout from that report? Why are you people getting so outraged on behalf of the people of Sweden? I can tell you from first hand experience, they just don’t care!!



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    #9762
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157240#Comment_119157240

    They didn't do bad. But some people will desperately try to find data where you can only compare them to a country that did particularly well to try to make them look bad.

    A bit like telling a guy with a large salary that he doesn't earn much compared to the countries highest earning CEO's.



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    #9763
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157240#Comment_119157240

    Who said Sweden had NO restrictions? Was it someone on here? Link to the post?



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    #9764
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157261#Comment_119157261

    You asked when is there going to an an enquiry as if there wouldn't be one. Well they did have one, and they cared enough to do a 800 page report on it, and obviously the enquiry. You need to ask them not us why they are so outraged they needed to do that. Since they did it, not us. You seem upset they did that.



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    #9765
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137599#Comment_119137599


    At this point I'd say you're the majority of the claims of a bloodbath.

    You're complaining about graphs comparing Sweden with its neighbours being selective. Which is it, don't exist or are selective.



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    #9766
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157265#Comment_119157265

    So between Sweden and Peru who is the CEO in this analogy.



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    #9767
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157341#Comment_119157341

    Go back and read the threads. Lots of posters, experts and people in the media constantly told us that no lockdowns would lead to a bloodbath.

    That didn't happen in Sweden. A lot of people are unsettled by that as it goes against their views that hard lockdowns were necessary.

    So they try to find coping mechanisms such as claiming that Sweden did lockdown or denying that claims of bloodbath were ever made.


    People on this thread are reduced to desperately trying to prove that Sweden did worse than Norway. But nobody cares. If you think they do, you're missing the point. Maybe on purpose.

    The point is, Sweden was supposed to be a bloodbath and it simply wasn't. They did better than most of Europe.



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    #9768
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Yeah we did that previously when it was claimed the media was drowning in bloodbaths.

    Yet when we linked to mainstream news of the period, and official statements they were very clear of how the relative risk to various demographics. No mention of Bloodbaths I could find. Nothing stop you going back and finding a tones of RTE articles or Govt reports all suggesting "bloodbath".



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    #9769
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157467#Comment_119157467

    Hahaha! Thats what I thought. So your latest coping mechanism is acting like nobody ever said there would be loads of deaths without lockdown...

    Look no further than Ireland. Our own Taoiseach at the time was predicting 80000 deaths in Ireland if we did nothing. Since Sweden has double our population, I guess its fair to say he might have predicted 160,000 for them? Just 140,000+ to go then.



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    #9770
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Hahahah so you can't find bloodbath either.

    I assume what your referring to was worst case estimates from Mar 2020 in an interview with an expert epidemiologist and Professor in RCSI..." if we did nothing". In the same comment he also said " My median scenario is that we’d have a 20 per cent attack rate and 20,000 deaths..." Again if we did nothing Lots of people referred to that interview out of context.

    Not even Sweden did nothing. According to Sweden anyway.



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    #9771
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157569#Comment_119157569

    Can you find us the source for this claim?

    Because even within your own posts you are being disingenuous so it's not even clear what the claim is.

    Which is it? Loads of deaths without lockdown? Or if 'we' did 'nothing'? And who is the 'we'?

    If "we" did nothing, doesn't just mean government, it meant all of society. It was what could happen if people carried on with covid as if it was flu. It was a worst case scenario designed to avert the scenario it warned about.

    It meant not just government restrictions but changes in behaviour, working from home, distancing, isolation, travel changes and also development of treatments, hospital practices etc etc

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #9772
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Be honest with yourselves lads, the whole tone around 2020 was that we needed to lockdown to prevent huge death tolls. The media and every expert that could get some air time were desperate to give us their predictions.

    Our very own government based policy on NPHETs insanely inaccurate modelling.

    Sweden proved them ALL wrong. With no lockdown, they have less than 20K deaths over 2 years later.

    In fact, their numbers are so good that they'd make you seriously question how necessary it was for the likes of Ireland to have a travel restriction in place for half a year.



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    #9773
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158135#Comment_119158135

    I wouldn’t bother anymore to be honest, they’re just trying to rewrite history at this stage. Sweden doesn’t care, why on earth would these people?



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    #9774
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158135#Comment_119158135


    So then no not the Taoiseach own predictions. What happened to bloodbath, will be get a chance to see all these articles mentioning bloodbaths.

    If there numbers were so good why did Sweden have the above travel restriction in place.

    Ireland had less deaths than Sweden. But Sweden has less deaths than Peru. Good job there I guess.



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    #9775
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158202#Comment_119158202


    They had an enquiry and a 800 page report. Sure seems like they didn't care.



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    #9776
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158246#Comment_119158246

    The Taoiseach at the time predicted 80000 deaths... Google it... It's literally the top result



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    #9777
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158644#Comment_119158644

    He didn't "predict" 80000 deaths if we didn't lockdown. Telling someone to google it after telling us there were constant media pronouncements on it is a pretty good sign you've been caught in a lie.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #9778
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158258#Comment_119158258

    The people don’t give a **** Flinty, only the likes of you. Why is that?



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    #9779
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158787#Comment_119158787

    I didn't write a report or run an enquiry. So logically it's a bit hard to argue I care more.



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    #9780
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The general consensus in 2020 and even up to now has always been that no lockdown would have resulted in lots of deaths. Very high numbers. With even Leo suggesting 80000 in Ireland.

    Are you guys genuinely denying that that was the narrative?

    I think you are purposely trying to miss the point.

    People said no lockdown would result in huge deaths. It didn't in Sweden.



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    #9781
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158901#Comment_119158901

    Well you are constantly on here harping on about something that doesn’t effect you in any way for some as yet unexplained reason.



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