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Becoming homeless with full time job

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,611 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    It sounds like the LL is simply trying to avoid the tenant accruing Part IV rights. Given that, they won't let them stay one day over the threshold.

    More than a bit sh1tty by the LL if that is their definite strategy and they gave a 1 year lease with the intention to break it. If that could be proven, a court might find the tenant was entitled those rights. If it is a genuine change of circumstances and a genuine necessity then it wouldn't be as bad



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Exactly what does your lease agreement itself say about early termination? Unless there is a clause in the lease itself allowing the landlord to terminate the lease before the one-year fixed term is up, his notice to terminate is invalid and you have the absolute right to remain in the property for at least the next six months. The laws allowing a tenancy to be terminated without a reason during the first six months (and allowing a Part 4 tenancy to be terminated for the allowable reasons) only apply to a periodic tenancy; a fixed term lease overrides that law and cannot be terminated during the fixed term unless the tenant has breached the lease agreement or there is a "break clause" explicitly allowing it to be terminated early by the landlord.

    After the fixed term is up, your landlord can issue notice on the basis of his intent to sell the property at that time, but that will give you quite a bit more time to find alternative accommodations in the meantime.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    AirBnB it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Overhand loop


    Lads. Thanks for your suggestions. I want to clarify few things and although I'm sure not everyone will read it anyways but here I go:

    1. Talking to a landlord point.

    This is not happening as we know his answer. I can not give much more info without exposing myself but believe you me since the first moth of our move we realised that we will get no help from him. We tried brushing it off and continue with our life but had in mind that we will need to look for something again closer to our lease end.

    2. Talking to Threshold etc.

    We didn't want to go that road as we will need to rent again and that means we will need a reference.

    3. Suggestions working our network, taking Airbnb or ads of lovely apartments on daft etc.

    As I have said originally - we have applied to million places. We get no response. We get no viewings. Check how many views ad gets once it is placed. Hundreds within first half an hour. Thousands if it's not taken down within a day. We providing excellent references, both hasn't been out of work for a day in our life, we're given bloody awards for how we work but getting no response. Once we do get it we are looked at as a small fish in a competition for places which are barely livable.

    There are no properties. No hotel rooms for longer term letting as they are given to refugees. How long you think can you stay in Airbnb? It's not affordable long term by any means.

    And network wise. We don't have one. We have asked people but our pain is ours. People have their own life's and I understand that.

    So, my question is what is there more beyond PRTB and Threshold? What category do we fall in? SW will not help us with anything. We're too well off for them. We are under so much stress now that I'm afraid something's gonna break.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Why do you feel you don't have the option. If you signed a fixed term lease for a year last December that lease is as binding on the landlord as it is on you.

    Unless the lease makes explicit provision for the landlord to break the lease within that fixed one year term the landlord cannot end your tenancy before the year is up so long as you comply with your obligations under the lease.

    Once you are there six months (sometime this June) you acquire part four tenancy rights under which you can remain in the property for another five and a half years, i.e. until December 2027.

    See https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-fixed-term-tenancy/what-is-a-fixed-term-tenancy-what-is-a-part-4-tenancy

    The landlord can only issue a notice of termination under very limited circumstances and any notice must comply with both the terms of your fixed term lease and the Residential Tenancy Act, whichever is the more favourable to you if there is any conflict between the terms of your lease and the Residential Tenancy Act.

    Nothing you have posted indicates the landlord can legally terminate the fixed term lease you have both signed.

    If it were me, I wouldn't be moving anywhere in a rush unless I had somewhere equally suitable to move to, including a fixed term lease giving me at least the same security of tenancy as I should have earned already where I am, and only then if I thought it was in my best interests.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    I think you need to speak to your landlord. Is he planning to rent the place or sell it? If he plans on selling it then you could stay and pay rent until the sale goes through. Its a win win for him and you.

    I would contact RTB and Threshold and see where you stand. I dont think he can just evict you for no reason with such short notice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,943 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Of course you have a network: you have jobs, which means you have managers, colleagues and probably HR departments. You have friends, sports team mates, neighbours, ex- colleagues etc. Talk to all of these. That they have their own problems is irrelevant, you need just one of them to help you, and the only way to find that one is to ask them all.

    Worst case, you pack a bag for the week, put your stuff into storage over a weekend, move out Monday morning and present yourself, bags in tow, to the council housing office. They will find somewhere for you to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707




  • Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    Going down to the council is probably a good shout out at this stage. You have nothing to lose.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Right, but if the alternative is homelessness...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    OP, Lots of good advise here.

    From a landlords perspective, it takes about 1 to 2 years on average to properly evict the worst tenants you can imagine. And it can cost them a significant amount of money if they try to evict illegally.

    From the facts you have described, your landlord isn't able to evict until December as he signed a 1 year lease with you. There are actually reasons a lot of landlords don't give fixed term leases any more and this is one of them. It simply gives more rights to the tenant. Once its done, he start the process of eviction. In the meantime, I would keep looking for another place. And I wouldn't leave until you find one. You have a home, so stay there.

    Also if you can, keep everything. Times, dates, messages. From the sounds of it, your landlord will probably try to pull a fast one like "moving in".



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭covidcustomer



    The only people you can go to are PRTB/Threshold and your logic for not doing this is, well, bizarre to be honest, what good is a reference if you can't find somewhere to rent?



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    You could overhold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    It’s not really overholding when the notice was illegal. Not disagreeing with your idea but I think it’s important that op has not been given proper notice and not just for some petty technical reason but because the ll is trying to screw them over.

    Post edited by houseyhouse on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭mrslancaster



    Not a good thing to advise when everything is done correctly and legally by a landlord - it causes stress and possibly extra costs for a landlord and ensures the tenant will not get a reference and will appear on a public dispute register. Not a great help if a tenant is looking to rent somewhere else.


    In this case there is no need for the OP to do anything illegal.

    First thing they need to check is the lease to see if there is a break clause. If there is, then the landlord can give notice, provided it is a valid notice, ie, the correct number of days, correct form, copy sent to rtb etc

    If there is no break clause, then the OP is in the middle of a one year fixed term lease that he signed last Dec and cannot be told to leave until the FTL term expires. At that stage, the OP will have gained part4 rights so the landlord can only give notice in certain circumstances.

    If this landlord is trying to do something dodgy, then the OP should definitley contact the RTB. On the other hand, he might be like some small landlords who don't fully understand all the recent changes and he needs to be reminded of his tenants rights and his own obligations. Not an excuse for dodgy behaviour but genuine mistakes can happen.


    Also, there is nothing to stop the OP and his landlord coming to a mutually beneficial agreement to end the FTL early, but it can't be demanded by the landlord.


    People need to start sticking to the contracts they sign up to. The rental market needs to work for both parties, illegal behaviour by either tenants or landlords is totally unacceptable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭notAMember


    That “talk to the landlord “ thing really only works with small landlords who are in the country. The type that current policy is stamping out. Op has described a non resident LL selling what sounds like a block, probably because of the new rules on rent increases. It’s one of the inevitable consequences of penalising the service providers for there not being enough service providers…


    OP are your jobs transferable? Can you leave Dublin? I know that’s an awful shift when you potentially have children in school, but it may be a better move long term.


    I agree with asking people you know (colleagues, neighbours, other parents nearby) about housing. Getting a place before it goes on the market is the best way to do it these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,611 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Given that he still has his post coming there, are you sure you signed a lease and not some sort of purported licence agreement? He might try to claim that you are only a licencee. (However, regardless of what the agreement document calls itself, if it came down to it, a court could find that you had a lease)



  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭bluelamp


    Are you in Dublin? Contact the tenancy support service & threshold before your eviction date.

    Homelessdublin.ie has phone numbers if you need emergency accommodation.

    Put your family first - don't end up sleeping in a car or something daft, stay till you've something sorted.

    I'm really sorry you're in this situation (that could happen to literally any renting family right now, regardless of income level).

    It's honestly scary at this stage - an absolute failure for our country, we're on the cusp of having no homes available for people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Loads of posts about RTB and checking for dots and crosses in the lease.

    But your question of how did we get here?

    Successive ministers pulling new rules for landlords out of their backside.

    Legislation to make a simple agreement between two people not really an agreement at all.

    Capping rents for people staying put, which really makes the jump very big when you do move.

    Peoples willingness to go to the RTB at the drop of a hat and RTBs willingness to always take the side of the tenant.

    Rogue tenants playing the system and being encouraged to by charities and councils. Making it worse for decent tenants who are the ones suffering because of their behavior.

    All of this and more have added up to a thousand cuts that reduces the supply of rental property.

    Thats how we got where we are.

    How do you fix it? I dont think it can be at this point. Normal investors are out and REITs are in. Its just not work the risk/reward/hassle factor for the ordinary landlord at this point. Only supply coming on stream from now on will be REITs and councils.

    Your landlord might be happy to let you stay for a while while you look, but does that weaken his position if you decide not to move out after that if you then have stayed over 6 months? Who knows what the legislation is at this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭rightmove


    Summed up by the Astronaut Chris Hadfield quote: There Is No Problem so Bad You Can't Make It Worse

    Agree totally with what you said above. When doing the popular/virtuous looking move is trumping doing the RIGHT thing. Right thing is often not popular and often take balls of steal to defend.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭newmember2


    OP...only you know why you are unwilling to exercise your legal rights. It's up to you, nobody is going to do it for you. If you're sure you have a 1 year lease then you have 1 year in that property UNLESS you breach one of the lease terms. You need confirmation from the RTB that your tenancy is registered. You seem to want to let the LL do whatever they want even though you're the one landing out on the street. The housing situation in Ireland is a complete fk up, but you need to at least exercise your legal rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    I think this explains the current rental situation very well and I don't believe it can be fixed.

    If SF are elected the first thing they want to do is give renters a months rent back but they don't see that this will drive more landlords out.

    OP I wish you well. A friend of mine was served notice recently. They were paying low rent and as well as no properties available they now can't afford to pay current rents. Their solution is to somehow finance a site and illegally place a mobile home on it. This will bring it's own problems but needs must.



  • Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    Exactly, needs must, and it will be hard for the council to do anything about it I imagine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Well I'm sure the council could force them to remove it and then an hour later they present themselves as homeless to the same council



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭mrslancaster



    I've heard that 'contact the council' a lot and have no idea how it works. Getting notice to leave is the reality for many at the moment, and there's no prospect of things getting better soon.

    So how does the system work? Are councils obliged to provide housing to anyone who find themselves at the end of a tenancy and can't find anything else, either because nothing is available, or the rent is too high?

    I'm just wondering how people actually manage if they find themselves in that awful situation. What does the local council have to do to help people?

    Post edited by mrslancaster on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    I would not be an expert but as far as I know the council and Threshold will advise people not to move until a new home is found. If you "choose" to leave with nowhere to go you have effectively made yourself homeless.

    If a landlord has gone through the legal process the sheriff can evict you and as far as I'm aware provide you with paperwork to then present to the council who are then obliged to help.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ...

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    I need to call you out in this absolute BS. Nobody gets a free house while unemployed. In fact, if you live in Dublin or Cork city, you can earn 35,000 after tax to be eligible for the housing list. The list where you supposedly get a free house. And that is no walk in the park to get either. I am only new on the list, so that is over 10, 15 or 20 years or god knows how long to get a "free house". A free house where I would still have council rent to pay. The unemployed don't get any preferential treatment, they're on the same list as anyone who works and meets the income threshold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Have no advice OP. But know how you feel as I was in a similar situation not so long ago. Would renting a single room in a houseshare work out for you? Which seems absolutely pointless with the state of things, surely it's better to have a couple in one room instead of renting two rooms separately. But you're up against people hating couples when housesharing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Living in a social house while on welfare (by choice) while your neighbour pays 1500+ rent per month equates to being given a house. Waiting lists are irrelevant and only serve to prove my point even more.

    Maybe you would be able to afford rent or a deposit if the local councils weren't outbidding working citizens and creating a giant housing price/rent bubble.



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