Fall of the Catholic Church

...and you're back trying to prove how religious someone is...

I think you're going to say the census is wrong until you get the numbers that agree with your point of view. Until then it will be "wrong".

Which suggests harping on about the census and how religious people are, are fundamentally the wrong approaches.

Eh no, it's not my rule or my standard. It is the church rule.

From: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/obligation-to-attend-mass-on-sundays-1101

"The obligation to attend Sunday Mass exists. It is a commandment of the Church which binds under the penalty of grave sin. "

These people are committing grave sins by the standard of their chosen church, yet they think they can tell others how to educate their children?

The question or rule wasn't about sin. It was about does this make them not catholic.

I'm not going to get into a debate about sin as I don't know much about it. But I suggest you look up how reconciliation works. That seems to answer your question.

So when the Bishops tell you about the obligation to attend mass, were they only messing?

Here’s one of those parents that you count as perfectly happy with the current situation;

Not my rules, yet again.

I've been to quite a few graduation ceremonies over recent years ( and I've another in a few weeks) in different schools none ever had a mass for graduation. Tbh graduation seems a relatively new thing.

I know recently as the church fades it seems to have got more fervent in some schools. But it's remarkable how often those who don't want any involvement with RC manage to seek out and find these schools.

Come on Jack, he stated very clearly the link to prove it wasnt his judgement, passing out otherwise.

Here's who's judgement it is again:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/obligation-to-attend-mass-on-sundays-1101

Well if the census is BS, and presumably any self declared status in a vote will have the same flaw. How will demand to be measured.

No PC I’m not interested in breaking Andrew’s balls or anything, but it was very clear that it was HIS passing judgement upon other people when he refers to Catholics who do not meet HIS standards as “a la carte” Catholics. There’s just no such concept as an “a la carte” Catholic within Catholic theology in the first place.

I pointed out that Andrew’s assertion that Catholics who do not observe Sunday Obligations are committing a grave sin, is also incorrect, and I pointed out that there are a number of elements which constitute grave sin or in the case of non-observation of Sunday Obligations, what would be considered a mortal sin. In order for Catholics to have committed sins of any description, the condition which is common to both mortal, and venial sins, is this one -

It must be committed with full knowledge (and awareness) of the sinful action and the gravity of the offense.

…

With respect to a person's full knowledge of a certain act being a grave sin, the Catholic Church teaches that "unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders (mental illness). Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest." Furthermore, Catholic teaching also holds that "imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors."…

Mortal sins are called "grave sins" under the Code of Canon Law due to the "grave" nature of all mortal sins, and the terms are used there interchangeably. This does not deny the distinction given above, that there may be grave matter but not a grave sin if the other conditions of knowledge and freedom are not present.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_sin

It’s entirely Andrew’s judgement of other people that in his opinion, Catholics who do not observe Sunday Obligations are “a la carte” Catholics who are committing a grave sin. That’s entirely his understanding of a few different concepts that he has cobbled together as though he has the authority vested in him to pass judgment upon other people who are Catholic. Not “a la carte” Catholics, just Catholic, or Roman Catholics if it’s necessary to be that specific.

It takes an enormous ego, or a great degree of hubris for anyone to imagine they have that kind of authority over other people that they can pass judgment upon them, an authority which they simply do not have, but it’s a good indication of the kind of shìt they would inflict upon other people if they were ever given the opportunity.

FWIW though, I wouldn’t use EWTN as a source for anything related to the Catholic Church. They’re a particularly nasty organisation which tends to promote their own brand of Catholicism based upon their own standards -

Conflict with Pope Francis

In March 2021, Pope Francis reportedly told the EWTN reporter and cameraman onboard a papal flight to Iraq that the network "should stop bad-mouthing me," according to a report in the Jesuit magazine America. On a 2021 trip to Slovakia, Francis complained in a "meeting with Jesuits" that "a large Catholic television channel that has no hesitation in continually speaking ill of the pope," and that "they are the work of the devil ... I have also said this to some of them." In reply, Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, who "led the archdiocese of Philadelphia and who is a former EWTN board member", stated that "any suggestion that EWTN is unfaithful to the Church" is "simply vindictive and false."

Recurring guests on the weekly EWTN show "The World Over", hosted by EWTN anchor Raymond Arroyo, include prominent Francis critics, including Cardinal Raymond Burke, who co-signed a list of "dubia" about Pope Francis’ openness to allowing divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Communion in some cases, and Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the former head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who was not renewed for another term by Pope Francis in 2017. Two years later, Cardinal Müller published a "manifesto of faith" in the EWTN-owned Catholic News Agency and other outlets that have been critical of the pope, arguing against Francis’ teaching on Communion for the divorced and remarried.

Other guests include Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, who has called on the pope to resign. EWTN also features a group calling itself "The Papal Posse"—which includes along with Raymond Arroyo, the Rev. Gerald Murray (a New York priest, former U.S. Navy chaplain and canon lawyer), and Robert Royal (a Catholic author who founded the D.C. think tank the Faith and Reason Institute and the blog "The Catholic Thing") — that according to Colleen Dulle of America magazine, "riffs on one another’s criticisms of the pope and has given uncritical interviews to anti-Francis guests like Steve Bannon, who argued on air that his own populist politics better represent Catholic social teaching than Pope Francis does".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWTN

@drivingmissdaisy Miss Daisy, are you totally blind to the actual evidence of the increasing secularisation happening in Ireland, with the majority of weddings now being civil and not church weddings, with the tiny levels of mass attendance, with the majority of the population voting to ignore church teachings on abortion and equal marriage?

I can only imagine what kind of circles you've been hanging around to delude yourself about the reality of modern Ireland.

The census accurately records the number of people who tick a box. That's all.

The only conclusion we can really draw about that 78% of people is that they were baptised in a catholic church. We have literally no idea what they believe today.

What's utter BS is the interpretations and justifications that box-ticking is abused in order to perpetrate.

The census does NOT ask anything about how parents wish to have their children educated. Using the census for that purpose is meaningless and an abuse.

We know that demand for Educate Together schools is overwhelming all over the country. Parents are very often forced to send their child to a religious ethos school because there is no alternative.

Glad to see it, though it's voluntary and you've got gobshites like Owen Keegan on the DCC blocking doing this. Now all that's needed is to not make it voluntary as the RCC owes an enormous amount of money to Ireland. Still, it's a little progress and reassuring to see that despite census nonsense, the RCC in Ireland is failing. It has a way to go.

Maybe they could build non faith schools