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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    It's bigger than that now isn't it? (even if Russia was calling it a limited military operation to get some Nazis and disarm them, and what Russia says defines reality as we all know).

    Also I think that is maybe the first time (not this one, in earlier post) I've seen you offer something close to what might be a truly held opinion there - "It doesn't matter now"! 

    Basically Russia/Putin had their fun (successfully grabbing some new land in Crimea + now as Putin hopes, extending the landgrabs massively with an invasion of Ukraine) and that's all that matters. The ends justify the means, when it is Russia.

    All the other stuff angrily + righteously spouted in 100s of posts, about Iraq and Yemen etc., US or West's hypocrisy or lovely posts calling Western politicans "dildos" and "dicks" is really just chaff + noise intended to confuse + disorient any people foolish enough to listen/pay any attention!



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,469 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Russia had no authority to hold the referendum. Why would Ukraine acquiesce in an illegal act?

    So after Russia invaded Crimea with military force, a country known for the disappearance of journalists or those raising opposition voices, you think it was possible for there to be a proper debate in a free and open manner to those opposed to being annexed by Russia?

    Either you're completely ignorant of world affairs or you think we are. Look up the definition of a Russian useful idiot - you're it.

    The content of your posts represent utterly dishonest exercises in Russian propaganda.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,532 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    My point would be that the invasion of Ukraine by Russia makes things much, much worse for pro-Russian people and Russian separatists. They will have to live for decades with the knowledge that they backed a fascist invasion of Ukraine. Life can never be 'normal' for them, they will be living with the consequences of 2022 long after Putin is dead (witness what happened to the people of Sudetenland after WW2...throwing their weight behind Hitler and wishing to live under his rule turned out to be an utter catastrophe for them).



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Ukraine lose and do not go to the world Cup. Guess there will be no global show of support at the world Cup then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    See? No favouritism.

    Don't know why you're complaining.

    "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..." is the new "I'm not a racist, but...".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,469 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The opposite, they were robbed of a stonewall penalty (and the Wales keeper had the game of his life).

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,843 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It would be interesting to see support for joining/staying with Russia in Dombas and Crimea when they see billions in western aid pouring in to rebuild Ukraine and they could be part of a crippled Russian federation which neglected its outer regions even when it was relatively prosperous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    Do you concede that never in the entire history of Russia has it ever permitted a fair election?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Much larger, and much more significant than the Balkans.

    Not quite as large as the edgy contrarian attempts in this thread though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Crimea wasn't a member of the OSCE. Russia, which is a member, barred the OSCE then from entering Crimea. It was just all a show, a farce of course.

    This is what Russia does, fake referendums to give something an air of legitimacy. Their supporters keenly defend these electoral parodies as real because they share the Kremlin's contempt for normal democratic process. The Russians are currently gearing up to hold them in occupied territory in Ukraine, if they can be bothered to go to the effort, they seem to be equally as happy to straight up brutally occupy Ukraine as the Wehrmacht did.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    Well then it would have been very easy to validate your claim that Russians are genetically predisposed to speak nothing but lies by having inspectors present. No?



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    It's news to me that Russia barred the OCSE from observing the referendum. Can you provide proof of that claim? And secondly, why didn't Ukraine invite them? If you put the pieces together you come up with nothing but contradictions.

    So the Crimeans never wanted to return to Russian control and were blocked from voting or forced to vote yes or be executed. The Crimeans requested OCSE presence which was refused on the grou ds that Crimea had no such authority. The Ukraine never invited OCSE to observe. The Russians, however, barred the OCSE, which was not invited?

    Am I correct in assuming that that is what you are saying?



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace




  • Registered Users Posts: 49 SomewhereInTheMiddle



    Woo...

    Didn't know here's a lot of people who just want to say something rude, when they don't feel they want to check the arguments themselves. And especially when I provided them.

    I thought that polite Irish people only want to know something from the first hand. I decided to share. Now I see what happens here. Thanks.

    No, Mister. Your "level" of discussion doesn't even worth a penny of attention. Please bring yourself up first and apologise, then I could reply.

    Regards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    A lot of stuff is news to you. Russia barred the OCSE from entering Crimea. The OSCE were invited to Ukraine, and they went to Ukraine.

    No contradictions there.

    Larger.

    Every petty pedantic inch, it's incredible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    They weren't invited by the Kiev regime. So by your own logic the claim that the vote was fraudulent is equally dubious.

    It reminds me of that opening scene in the movie The Shawshank Redemption. A defendant is on trial for murder. He stated that he threw his gun in a river. The prosecutor asserts that the river was searched and no gun was found so it was very convenient that a ballistics comparison could not be conducted. The defendant states that it was decidedly inconvenient that the gun was not found since a ballistics comparison would have exxonerated him.

    You are of the opinion that OCSE absence proves malfeasance. It does nothing of the sort. If the OCSE were present and could report no impropriety would you then accept the outcome? If everything was deemed above board and compliant would you stipulate?



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    It would be extremely easy to put paid to that doubt, reticence and trepidation then, would it not? You could talk to some Crimeans or even go for a visit and make up your own mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    A very sure sign that Russia is having serious tank resupply issues, T64's spotted again




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Chaya Slimy Fax




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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭myfreespirit


    Another one indeed.

    More power to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    Alas, it won't be enough to deter the murderous russian war on civilians in Ukraine.

    An opinion piece in The Observer yesterday was very hard-hitting about the mediocre Western support for Ukraine, essentially saying that the west is "hoping for some form of shabby compromise..." allowing Putin "to accept territory and immunity in return for halting the horror".

    This could well be the hideous outcome of the terrible war, as others in the thread have forecast.

    Looking at the map of Ukraine which are now under russian military occupation, it is hard to see them giving up this land grab. A bit pessimistic I know, but the omens are not good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭myfreespirit


    President Zelensky truly is an extraordinary leader, calm, courageous and determined in the face of an impossible trial facing his country and his people.

    Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

    In stark contrast to the coward hiding in the Kremlin, along with his sycophants like Peskov and Lavrov.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    To be fair, one doesn't just pivot to a war footing on a whim, especially if a country or countries are both scarred by historical wars (perhaps even THE war) and are not currently configured towards interventionism. Easy to dump on Germany but when their constitution literally exists as a response to its darkest stain, that doesn't just disappear overnight. Coupled with 50 years of kid gloves over a secretive nuclear power glowering in the corner; one doesn't just provoke Russia lightly.

    We could be doing more, should be doing more and if the tide turns for Ukraine watch the sudden surge of weapons flow into the country - but I do get it to an extent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen



    It really wasn't as simple as that though was it. Before the BBC gave up on impartiality and joined the neo con party they reported on the influence of the far right and how they started the violence at Maidan. Here is a report from 2014.


    And here is Victoria Nuland caught discussing who America wants to place in charge after they kick out Yanukovich. She is still around working for Biden today.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭McGiver


    STOP. These are all LIES. At this stage, I will report you again for support of illegal annexation and denial of facts.

    Russia militarily occupied Crimea using soldiers without insignia and then collaborators organised "a referendum".

    Using military units without insignia (especially when operating on a foreign territory) is banned by the Geneva Convention, by the way.

    To make it look valid the Kremlin paid about 50 lunatics from Europe to act as "International observers". They were simply paid for acting just like you would pay the crowd in a film. They were no observers, specialists, experts, reputed or genuine representatives of the countries. They were all fringe irrelevant "politicians" from various extremists, fascist, authoritarian or populist movements/parties.

    "Fake referendum at a gunpoint" is the most accurate description of this situation. It's as valid as a referendum staged by Mugabe, Hitler or other tinpot dictator.

    You're talking nonsense and everyone knows it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭McGiver


    14 and counting.

    Russian regimes do not value life. They are like insects, their tactic is to swarm the enemy by numbers and ignore their own losses. Tactic used in WW2 which costed them millions of soldiers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 SomewhereInTheMiddle


    I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

    That's why I asked here if someone at least has been to Ukraine: there are no such road signs in Ukraine!

    This is also ridiculous how you freely believe that the Russian army is poor and doesn't have a military. Just to be fair: the Russian military is the most modern in the world at the moment. Putin invested 2 trillion dollars in the Russian military in just recent times!

    How do you imagine they could stand for so long if the West sends tons of weapons to Ukraine? Just because Russians are so smart and they're managing to stand with old tanks and weapons?..

    It's funny already, isn't it?

    So how in the world do you trust all these sources?!

    Check all the sources before you trust them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Day in, day out, a fixation on destroying and nuking other countries. This is watched by a large portion of the Russian population




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Yep, China is going to be the winner here.

    Unless Russia is totally defeated and/or launches a nuclear/chemical warfare then China ends up with a vassal that it can internationally defend and support publicly (by lying if course).

    Chinese cultural and economic influence will increase significantly in Siberian Russia. Lots of cheap resources available. They will build additional infrastructure to ship them as they do in East/South East Asia and East Africa. Siberian Russia becomes a Chinese puppet colony.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭McGiver




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