GAA Infastructure

FrancieBrady · 04-06-2022 12:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156250#Comment_119156250

Getting to and from Clones has not impinged numerous sellout games. Jesus are you blind?

Why complain about facilities in Clones if you are happy with the lack of investment? My experience of Belfast and Dublin is no different to the experience of getting into and out of Clones. I expect delays and that is ok.

Could be a lot better with people tasked to traffic management, but the accountants don't see the benefit of that. As one Ulster Council chairman said and bit the nose of me when I suggested a proper traffic plan, 'I don't give a **** how they get home as long as they pay for a ticket'

The 'product' has not gotten cheaper with the shiny new stadiums and concerts, it has gotten a lot more expensive. If they build Casement expect to pay a lot more to see inter county football. The beast will have to be fed.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 04-06-2022 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156283#Comment_119156283

Having gone to games in Clones myself, being stuck in traffic for upwards of an hour or two both ways, Id much rather travel to Belfast via dual carriageway and motorway any day much quicker or indeed take the bus. Plus its Ulster Finals, they'll sell out regardless of the venue.

Re the lack of investment, I don't mind because I know they're going to build a new state of the art stadium at Casement, why waste money on a venue that won't really be used for big games in future.

Pete_Cavan · 04-06-2022 7:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156178#Comment_119156178

A lot of general statements there but these are all red herrings which don't reflect reality. General public transport, particularly regional bus routes, wont work for matchdays as they don't have the capacity. It would be chartered buses same as Clones, it works very well in Clones as there is the Mart where the buses park up and people walk from there to and from the stadium and can grab food/drink along the way. Not sure Casement has anywhere within walking suitable for many buses that is always available on weekends.

Smaller venues getting concerts is irrelevant, they are a different proposition to what Casement would be. At 34k, Casement could only attract a certain type of act and even then they have to compete with the bigger Boucher Road to get them. PUC can sell an extra 10,000 tickets and has no real competition in Cork. I doubt there will be much money to be earned from concerts. Not sure what advantages Casement would have over existing conference venues, out of town but with no parking is not an attractive proposition. Any income will be needed just to cover the basic costs of the stadium, distributing money elsewhere is wishful thinking at best, downright delusional at worst.

breezy1985 · 04-06-2022 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156511#Comment_119156511

Loads of get the intercity buses to matches and Belfast will have way more of them than anywhere else in Ulster.

So Belfast will have lots of public transport + charter compared to Clones small few buses + charter so it still means Belfast is more accessible.

tanko · 04-06-2022 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155182#Comment_119155182

Ten minutes from Monaghan town to the Ballygawley roundabout???? You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. It would take far longer than 1hr 20 mins to get to Belfast, the motorway would be jammed with match day traffic with nowhere to go at the end of it.

The GAA should have invested in Clones, not some white elephant in Belfast.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 04-06-2022 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157111#Comment_119157111

Apologies have traveled from Monaghan town before to Belfast a few times and the distance felt very short - still, at 20-25mins down to the roundabout and on smooth dual carriageway and motorway from there, I must emphasise once again, there's no comparison private and public transport getting to Belfast

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 04-06-2022 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156511#Comment_119156511

Alot of general statements here that don't reflect reality also if im being truthful. There is basically little to no public transport to clones when you compare it to Belfast. Again, repeating myself, if I wanted to get to either Belfast or clones tomorrow morning from any major town across ulster, id get to Belfast much quicker (may not even be possible to get to Clones from a lot of towns across Ulster via public transport).

re: Concert venue size, No it is not irrelevant lol, again a silly general statement, a lot of the acts that play at Boucher, Ormeau Park, SSE Arena could play (& fill up) the new Casement Park now - just looking at some of the acts playing at the latter two (smaller) venues this year - Billie Eilish, Calvin Harris, Westlife, Liam Gallagher, Lewis Capaldi - all could fill a 34,500 stadium (as they have done so in bigger venues elsewhere).

"I doubt there will be much money to be earned from concert", again a general nonsense statement, of course there's decent money to be made from renting a 34,500 stadium out. Casement is not out of town lol, it is in the west of the city lol with great public transit links with the glider there now. Same with Croker, poor parking options but yet its conferences and meetings do really well.

"distributing money elsewhere is wishful thinking at best, downright delusional at worst", again another nonsensical general statement that doesn't reflect reality - majority of GAAs revenue is redistributed back into our Games

FrancieBrady · 04-06-2022 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157557#Comment_119157557

It's clear you have never gone into Casement on a match day.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 04-06-2022 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158027#Comment_119158027

It’s clear that if I were to try to get to Clones in the morning from any town or village across ulster without a car, I would struggle. The total opposite is the case with Belfast.

FrancieBrady · 04-06-2022 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158097#Comment_119158097

Which has nothing to do with what I just said.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 04-06-2022 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158113#Comment_119158113

We were talking about getting to and from Clones versus Belfast, correct? - your question asking if I’ve been to casement before was in response to my point about travelling to and from Belfast versus clones, correct? I think I’m very much staying on topic.

If my past attendance at casement is so important to the discussion, the answer is no I have not been to casement on match day before. I look forward to attending in future however. Having been to Clones on Match day and to belfast for other events, I know which one I’d choose for ease of travel to and from major events.

tanko · 04-06-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158334#Comment_119158334

Where do you live?

Pete_Cavan · 04-06-2022 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157617#Comment_119157617

It is not Belfast in general whch would be the destination but Casement in particular. Any public transport options I can find from towns like Omagh and Armagh to Casement involve going to Belfast city centre and travelling back out again, they are also double the time of going direct. Those services are also limited, like one every hour and 50 seater coaches some of which will be taken by general passengers. That is a drop in the ocean for tens of thousands travelling to a game. Undoubtedly there would be many chartered buses much like Clones, but Clones has space available for these buses to drop people within walking distance of the stadium and they sit there until everyone comes back. How Casement would handle this is far more relevant than comparing public transport in Belfast and Clones.

Croker is much closer to Dublin's centre than Casement is to Belfast's. Croker has lots of parking for conferences and the like, unlike Casement which would have none. I seriously wonder if you have actually been to either stadium.

And my point was that there is unlikely to be any money from this stadium to distribute, it will likely need every penny to cover its own costs like PUC.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 04-06-2022 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158423#Comment_119158423

Your first paragraph here is simply not accurate. Yes, like going to croker or pairc hi chaoimh or Pearse stadium, you travel via public transit to the city (which may I add from the likes of Omagh or Armagh is a very regular service to and from Belfast) to and from from your town/village and then as you put it ‘travel back out again’ - in casements case you get off at europa bus station and hop on either the glider (which is two min walk up great Victoria street) which operates similar to the luas in Dublin or Ulsterbus metro bus which will take you to Casement. Again nonsense re: how the services are limited. The Glider and Metro buses operates multiple times per hour each way plus as I’ve mentioned above travelling to and from belfast has loads of services to and from the major towns across ulster.

Again not true, The new casement will also have its own car park just like croker / clones.

And yes I have been to Croker and indeed Clones many times, just not Casement.

FrancieBrady · 04-06-2022 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158818#Comment_119158818

So how come Casement gets snarled up like everywhere else? The road in cannot cope, is why and they are proposing bring even more people. I have sat in traffic many times and was there the day the game was delayed by a hold up on the motorway.

Everywhere has the same issues, Croker even.

roadmaster · 05-06-2022 7:46am

Hopefully Heather Humpreys backs up statments like below and clone gets upgraded

https://www.northernsound.ie/news/local-minister-heather-humphreys-says-clones-is-the-place-for-the-ulster-final-195399

breezy1985 · 05-06-2022 7:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119159814#Comment_119159814

The road in cannot cope, is why and they are proposing bring even more people

The new capacity will be an extra 3000. Its not a lot when you are talking 30k+ events

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160170#Comment_119160170

Not much she can do really

roadmaster · 05-06-2022 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160186#Comment_119160186

There is plenty she can do. She has already managed to get clones a couple of 100k. I am sure she could pressure the dept of sport for a few million to upgrade the stadium. If she was in higher role after the cabinet reshuffle when FG take there turn in government she would be will able to make things happen. She is bascailly a Healy Rea of monaghan just look at the funds monaghan got for local roads. Clones is central in ulster and a great place to watch a game for various reasons. Not everything has to be in a city

Pete_Cavan · 05-06-2022 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158818#Comment_119158818

Taking Omagh as an example, the public transport recommendation I get is bus 273. From Omagh, it has departures on a Sunday at 1130 and 1300 with the latter only getting you to Casement for 1530. So capacity for no more than 100 Tyrone supporters to get to Casement by 1530 or <50 if throw in is earlier. The timetable is here so we can get away from the irrelevantly general "Belfast has loads of services to and from the major towns across Ulster" as most of those services are no relevance for an USFC game on a Sunday afternoon;

https://www.translink.co.uk/timetables?routeHashCode=6525a1ac13e069d5b2ff445d730e004a5c1b38dae33abf1a609be4e6826ffcff&route=UG&direction=R

Similar story from Letterkenny, Cavan, Monaghan and Armagh, none of which have rail connections. And Glider "operates similar to the luas" is another very broad statement which ignores the reality of the situation. Glider vehicles only carry 106 passengers, even the shorter Luas Red Line trams can carry >350 each. Even if you doubled Gliders current highest frequency (which probably isnt possible due to lack of segragation from general traffic and lack of vehicles), Glider would need two hours just to bring 10% of the Casement capacity. It is a relatively low capacity transport system and not suitable for large crowds arriving/leaving at the same time. The vast majority of people would use other methods, the same methods they use to get to Clones.

Charles Babbage · 05-06-2022 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158097#Comment_119158097

What villages in Ulster have a bus on a Sunday? Cullyhanna? Fintona? Derrylin? Swatragh? Iniskeen?

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 06-06-2022 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162781#Comment_119162781

Very selective look at what I was saying, from the translink website there are 13 different times on a Sunday you can get the 273 from Omagh to Belfast, not least the numerous connecting services I have not counted on the 261 or 212 you can get alternatively. I expect once Casement reopens them to adjust the timetable to cater for demand at specific times of the year (Ulster SFs, Finals, Concerts), extra services/services adjusted to cater for the events taking place in Belfast over the weekend and as they do for major events happening both in Belfast and Dublin, concerts at Boucher/Aviva/Croker, rugby at Ravenhill/Aviva.

There are Buses from Letterkenny, Cavan, Monaghan and Armagh.

Again with the Glider, as I have mentioned, they can increase frequency of services on matchday as they do with the Metro buses in Belfast for major events like rugby, concerts.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 06-06-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163081#Comment_119163081

For the ones you've mentioned, on a Sunday, the 44 and 238 connecting buses for Cullyhanna, the 87 and 273 from Fintona, the 30 and 261 from Derrylin, 116a & b and 212 or 218 from Swatragh, Iniskeen the only one with no services on a Sunday. All above options getting you to Belfast within 2-3hrs or thereabouts. (I would myself go to a town bus station/park and ride instead for the bus as they're normally way quicker/direct but at least the options there for the villages you have named, apart from Iniskeen).

Charles Babbage · 06-06-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164418#Comment_119164418

Nonsense.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 06-06-2022 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165055#Comment_119165055

Apologies I was using Google Maps Public transit info, Translink mustn't have updated its timetable info on Google maps. They must have recently removed the Sunday services - my point is still valid though for Monday-Saturday.

My original point is also still valid and factually correct, Belfast is way easier to get to via public or private transport from across Ulster when compared to Clones. All of the major towns across Ulster have regular bus services to Belfast. There's also rail options for some towns. Not least mentioning the public transit options you have when you reach Belfast, namely in the metro Buses and the Glider BRT.

Charles Babbage · 06-06-2022 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165338#Comment_119165338

If you ask for a Sunday bus it offers you Monday 8am i.e. the school bus.

You are correct in the general point about some transport from some places to Belfast. But the importance of this can be overstated. Likewise roads and parking will always be congested, the best situation in when the two teams are approaching from different sides. So Armagh and Donegal next Sunday in Clones is not so bad as they are coming from different sides. DOwn and Derry in Casement might be approaching from different sides, but Tyrone v Armagh are all passing through Sprucefield.

Pete_Cavan · 07-06-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164380#Comment_119164380

There are not 13 different departures for the 273 from Omagh to Belfast on a Sunday, there are 5. That timetable shows both from 12 Jun 2022 and until 5 Jun 2022 which are what the 5 and 6 in Restrictions columns indicate, plus the first and last service of the day is curtailed. And people tend to want to be in a stadium before a game starts, so looking at departures across the day is irrelevant. Only those which could have people there a reasonable time (i.e. not too early and not too late) are relevant, which is one or two buses. You literally have to be selective on this, nobody is going to take a bus which is timetabled to get into Belfast close to or after throw in, plus with match traffic there would be congestion on approach to Belfast which would make a regional bus and Glider combo less reliable and unattractive.

Public Service Operators would not put on additional services for events unless they were paid to do so, which is unlikely, not least because those type of services are not suitable for events. The majority of buses will be commercial charters from local operators which go direct and as close as possible to the venue. This works really well with Clones as there is space for them to park within walking distance of the stadium and people get to enjoy the atmosphere in the town. In my experience, for matches many of those charters are paid for by pubs who want people there before/after the game so are free to the user. Nobody is going to pay for a standard scheduled bus as part of a multi-legged journey which will take a lot longer

Gliders current highest frequency is every 8 minutes. Maybe it is possible to go beyond that but there are limitiations for it due to lack of segregation and number of vehicles owned. Like I said, even doubling the frequency (which may not be possible) could only transport about 1700 people per hour, a paltry amount. Glider to Casement would only be attractive to people starting their journey in central Belfast, which is just as well because it is a system which cant handle huge crowds looking to arrive and depart a venue in a short space of time.

You clearly havent a clue about any of this so I'll leave it there. We'll see what happens with the Casement redevelopment but I cant see the UK government making £100m available for it. The GAA also dont want to be saddled with another large stadium which can barely pay its way, they have already been burned with PUC. Casement is just a vanity project for some in the Ulster Council.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022 · 07-06-2022 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168034#Comment_119168034

Again, apologies, was going off information on Google Maps public transit - Translink must not have updated their info on Google Maps.

You clearly don't have a clue about any of this because Translink have and do put on extra services for events in the city - see Ulster Rugby games, Boucher Rd concerts etc, I expect similar for Casement once it opens using both their Metro and Glider services. "those type of services are not suitable for events" - how are bus services to and from the likes of ravenhill/boucher road for UR/Concerts not similarly suitable for the likes of Casement lol? These services work just fine for these events.

The redevelopment of Casement is part of the Regional Stadia Programme, an NI Executive project that needs to be completed so the remaining shortfall likely will be funded by the UK Government/NI Executive. Again not true, the GAA clearly do want this project to proceed as has been stated by several of their officials across Ulster and wider nationally (& in several press releases), so you're again, talking nonsense.

Nothing wrong with wanting a modern, fit for purpose stadium for our national games, in our second city, with the majority of it being funded by the UK Gov as part of a Government programme that was open to the three major sports. Whatever about your gripe with some in the Ulster Council lol

roadmaster · 08-06-2022 8:56pm

So the local TD is looking to get the Minister for Sport involved with Clones

https://www.anglocelt.ie/2022/06/07/clones-and-casement-could-rotate-ulster-final-suggests-smyth/

breezy1985 · 08-06-2022 9:13pm

Anyone know why a section of the terrace was closed off in Thurles on Sunday. There was a weird corner closed for all the games in Limerick too.

dave 27 · 09-06-2022 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119176138#Comment_119176138

I notice this also in all ireland finals if you look at hill 16 there is a section on the lower right side that is empty, i wonder could it be for people who are injured etc to have a free area to treat them or somethin?

I imagine its something to do with health & safety.

Terracing in Irish GAA stadiums for some reason have been reduced in capacity in recent years. You never see them as packed as you do say in rugby.

Gaelic Grounds in Limerick used to hold 49,500 but recently that number is 44,600 or so. Similar with Semple stadium. I dont think they fill the terraces as tight as they used to unfortunately!

breezy1985 · 09-06-2022 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178611#Comment_119178611

I understand how over time the capacity gets lowered as the health and safety standards overtake the old stadia but Thurles was wedged and we had an empty area in one terrace.

Also it's only on one side so what happens on the other terrace if someone is hurt. I know Lansdowne has a few vertigo seats reserved so maybe this is some sort of area for people having difficulty of some sort as you say.

dave 27 · 09-06-2022 1:56pm

I didnt realise it was a seperate terrace from the rest with no link. Strange one

Pete_Cavan · 09-06-2022 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178611#Comment_119178611

My understanding is that determining factors for stand capacity are ability to escape and number of toilets, not situation on the terrace itself. Basically, if you haven't got enough gates and jacks, you have to have less people.

PeggyShippen · 10-06-2022 9:25am

Yeah they lowered the capacity in the Gaelic Grounds when some idiot decided to put the Stanchions of the Floodlights inside the terrace. I remember the Mayo v Kerry All Ireland final and you could have easily and safely fit another 5 ,000 on the terraces. The same in Thurles. They probably need to section off areas more to get the capacity back up. Even Cusack Park in Ennis this year v Limerick...I had tonnes of room all around. If its to do with the amount of toilets and exits then Cusack Parks capacity should be about 500 because the toilets are non existent or unhygenic portaloos.

dave 27 · 10-06-2022 9:51am

The 2008 Munster final is the only time i think the Gaelic Grounds' terraces were properly packed. I want to go back to this full again!

Tipperary vs Clare Munster Hurling Final 2008 - YouTube

breezy1985 · 10-06-2022 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182421#Comment_119182421

The floodlights were put inside the terrace because the residents complained. The same crowd who couldn't give a sht that there had been floodlights in Thomond Park shining on houses in Balla for years.

Money talks.

breezy1985 · 10-06-2022 10:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182521#Comment_119182521

2014 came close except around the base of those stupid floodlights.

roadmaster · 19-06-2022 2:47pm

Not looking good for Navan at the moment. Its wonder they dont break the project down in to 4 smaller projects with each stand being built over the next 10 years or even just built one stand an the rest terrace

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/we-are-not-in-a-position-to-move-the-project-any-further-meaths-pairc-tailteann-revamp-on-hold-due-to-costs-41755625.html

breezy1985 · 19-06-2022 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223271#Comment_119223271

Can't understand why all stadia of this style are not built bit by bit.

CrabRevolution · 26-06-2022 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223271#Comment_119223271

That's what Meath County board were trying to do. The plan was to build 1 new stand and then move on to the other parts, but things have now gotten so expensive that it's impossible to even build that 1 stand without bankrupting ourselves.

zetecescort · 26-06-2022 7:12pm

any idea why Hawkeye gives an almost instant response in Croke Park yet takes an age in Thurles?

breezy1985 · 26-06-2022 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253824#Comment_119253824

Did it take an age in Thurles or were the ref and umpires looking at the big screen like the rest of us. I only remember it taking an age the once but hadn't been paying attention either.

roadmaster · 27-06-2022 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253679#Comment_119253679

Thats sounds more resonable i heard some of my colleagues has said they wanted to do it in one hit

CrabRevolution · 27-06-2022 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257953#Comment_119257953

They had a long term masterplan and planning permission for the whole stadium, with accompanying mockups etc. but their immediate plan and fundraising goals only extended to replacing the current terrace with a stand. Now we can't even afford that...

27-06-2022 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253824#Comment_119253824

The whole theatre around the big screen needs to be done away with. There is never an incident where after a point is given/ waved wide by the umpires, that when hawkeye draws the refs attention and its reviewed, the original decision is upheld. Its always reversed. Its only when the umpires/ ref are unsure of the original call and ask for a review, that it might be upheld. It strikes me that Hawkeye therefore pretty much knows straight away if its good or not, and its just a bit of theatrics with the big screen when all they need to do is tell the ref the correct call.

PeggyShippen · 29-06-2022 7:02am

Hawkeye is limited. It gives a score if the ball breaks the plain of the crossbar even though the whole of the ball is supposed to cross the whole of the line for a score to be given. Its not rugby where touching the line with the ball is a score .

Again if the ball touches the vertical plain for a point it's given as a wide even though many of these would more than likely be a score if they hit the post and popped over

MayoAreMagic · 29-06-2022 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258043#Comment_119258043

Agreed.

Effectively, all it is doing is letting the team who missed the shot put on a massive press and thereby punishing the team waiting to kick the ball out.

Furthermore, is there any recourse for poor performance by umpires? There were 3 obviously very close calls in the mayo kerry game, and the same umpire gave the 3 of them as points with all being overruled. Surely he should be calling for hawkeye himself?

grbear · 19-07-2022 10:47am

https://www.mayonews.ie/sports/38597-machale-park-loan-is-crippling

Seeing an article like that does make me wonder just how many counties could realistically afford some of the projects they are planning. If Mayo, who have a great support compared to most counties and have been consistently a top team, are going to take the guts of thirty years to pay for a ground redevelopment then what chance have counties with less resources?

How many times can Croke Park setup special arrangements to help pay for overly expensive developments? Pearse Stadium, MacHale Park and Pairc Ui Chaoimh all ended up being costing more than expected between building costs and not being able to afford loans. Casement is going to cost a fortune so is the capacity going to be there for them to step in and help if another ground redevelopment overruns its budget?

I strongly feel there needs to be more joined up thinking about ground development in general. Realistically should the GAA be rowing in behind plans for 15,000+ capacity stadiums in counties where they'll practically never be filled? Surely it makes more sense to build slightly smaller stadiums and deal with the occasional scramble for tickets than it does to take on debt paying for seats that might only have a backside in them once every three years?

celt262 · 19-07-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357854#Comment_119357854

By the time it is paid off it will need to be redeveloped again.

breezy1985 · 19-07-2022 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357854#Comment_119357854

HQ need to take over development of the major county grounds. Lots of GAA fans would also now be going to the provincial rugby grounds or Premier League so expect a bit better than the stone benches of Castlebar. Now I'm not saying they need to be as snazzy as Thomond Park or wherever but they do need a bit of work in terms of catering and especially toilets.

GAA Infastructure

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