Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Putin supporters literally know he is deeply corrupt and kleptocratic and don't even care - similar to the Trump and Johnson phenomenon. I've seen online discussions about his rumoured vast wealth and watched his fans (including many Russians) doing everything to deflect the conversation away.

Their love for Putin and his extremist / authoritarian ways overrides everything.

No, they call the Russians nekulturny.

Oh, that is so true! However, let me to cite Oleksiy Arestovych - an adviser of Ukrainian president Zelensky:

What does it mean?

In short - if an idiot is waiving with weapon (including nuclear) in front of your nose, do whatever you can to avoid he would kill your people. Isn't it?

What did Zelensky? Did his military adviser ask him to prevent the war? Did Zelensky tried to negotiate before the war started?

No! The opposite - seems that Ukrainian government desperately wanted this war!

Hardly to believe, isn't it? But look at this official video with presidential adviser Arestovich, just before the war (please, turn on subtitle translation):

https://youtu.be/cNHVxPGZNGA?t=833

Arestovych is a military person. He didn't care about people. Their own business was more important than people's lives!

That brings me to a straightforward conclusion: neither side did care about the people. And they didn't care about them right now. They simply do their own business.

Zelensky wanted the war so much that Russia invaded Ukraine?

Are you saying that Russia were actually doing Ukraine a favour by going in for a bit of a murder and rape fest?

Bot tactics. Drown the discussion in reams of bullsh*t, endlessly dissect and argue minor points and, most importantly, provoke a reply from opponents that will get them banned, whilst they can claim they're only "asking questions".

I find these creatures fascinating, in many online discussions I have absolutely let fly with both barrels at them and nothing. They're psychopaths with no emotions. Everything is water off a duck's back to them. They very rarely lose their cool and even then it's calculated. I am extremely proud of the maybe 2-3 occasions where I got these yokes to complete lose their sh*t and go absolutely mental. But that is like trying to light a soggy lump of wood with matches. It rarely ever works.

And they seemingly have endless time to post massive walls of text all day long.

You can't wear them out and you can't make them lose their cool. They are like a dog that keeps barking for 8 hours straight.

Their aim is to frustrate the majority of followers who may read but never reply, so that they rob the thread of any oxygen and people will unfollow in frustration.

This is why one should never engage with that type of poster.

To be honest I'm shocked a bit by your reaction guys. You're saying I'm a bot because I've shared the official video and I cited not my own words that "A war is a two-sided process"... Probably my own comment was redundant. Anyway.

And even though I could be banned, let me share my discourse here:

• I'm Russian-speaking, not Russian nor Ukrainian, have friends on both "sides". I have a family, kids. I strongly believe and I see that there are much more commonalities between Russians and Ukrainians than differences. TBH I don't see the difference at all, but some of them find it. Okay.
• If you think I'm a bot - just drop my own comments on the linked video. It was posted 10 Feb 2022, 14 days before the war: watch the cited fragment, maybe you would do your own conclusions.
• What would I think (and what my friends from Ukraine thought when they saw this video - but you can distrust me, sure): I don't want this war, and these cynics proclaim their interests and don't care about my life, my family. About my specific own life - not the entire country. Obviously they're counting people in numbers, not in lives. Exactly just like fkn Putin does. I didn't come up with an idea to be included into NATO/EU/whatever: I have my family, and have my job, so I just want to live and work, and I don't want to be directed to the war. I want to keep my family safe. So - I need to run away from the country! Now! -- And that's what many of Ukrainians tried to do in short time - long queues at the Poland border. Men were not allowed to leave country since the war began (which is expected of course), before that moment some families managed to escape. But seems that most merely didn't believe the war could actually begin. They stayed and hoped that everything would be okay. I don't know how many people thought like this, but pretty sure - a lot. Most of Ukrainians didn't expect this war as a reality and didn't want it.
• Again, you can distrust me, but I have Ukrainian colleagues here in Ireland: since the war began - nobody has dropped their jobs and families here to go for the war. They have their own families - they're not crazy. And although they love Ukraine, but it was clear enough - you'll be serving interests of whoever, but not your own.
• I'm not saying Ukraine had to surrender when Putin has invaded - it would be too late. But I do remember that this arrogant man warned Ukraine's government many times and much-much ahead before the real actions: he wanted something. Keep me honest - Putin offered Ukraine to become military independent country like Switzerland or Ireland. So this is my own opinion, but having family there I would prefer to stay safe in current type of country, or to become (actually keep!) to be dependant on Russia like Ireland depends on UK now - but I'd prefer THIS (OMG such a scary dependency on Russia!), rather than to be killed or to lose my family.
• But. Nobody from Ukrainian gov asked my opinion if I want to join this NATO/EU etc, if I want this war. They simply said: "I'm a cowboy - I'll jump over this cliff!" But did anyone asked the horse? What I can see in the video mentioned above: they simply convinced the people that war is good, that "We will win". So did they have an option to prevent this war? IDK - it's up to your judgement.

I don't expect your understanding too much. If I'd be banned - I don't care - go ahead. That would be sad, and would flag me that Irish people are probably not yet ready for alternative reality. We will just consume US shale gas at exorbitant prices, honestly believing that this is because of evil Russians only.

Putin offered yanukovich a man that was totally and utterly rejected by Ukrainians.

You can’t be seriously comparing the relationship between Ireland and U.K. to that of Russia and Ukraine. Maybe in the 19th century they were similar. But we rejected that too.

Well maybe they shouldn't have bombed schools and houses in the Donbass for 8 years nor should they have allowed the Asov to run Mariupol like a criminal fiefdom either. When Nazi's start demanding to have Nuclear bombs on your doorstep you would probably become very nervous and want to do something about it.

I think if the British were bombing and discriminating against the people who considered themselves Irish for the last 8 years over our border I would imagine we would do something about it. Especially if the peace agreement that was signed with other EU countries (Minsk 2) as co signatories was simply ignored by the British and the shelling of our fellow countrymen recommenced. That's what Ukraine basically did with the Donbass. Think of Derry and Newry as Mariupol And Donetsk if that helps.

You all seem to think February 24th was Year Zero for this conflict. It wasn't. It was just another development of a larger conflict. Putin didn't just wake up one day and say "You know what? I think we should start to level Mariupol next week." To read some of your posts on here it seems some of you do think that's what happened.

Putin made the decision to arm fringe separatists in Eastern Ukraine and fill it with Russian soldiers ("on holiday") and weaponry, creating a conflict that didn't exist before. A chess move to make sure Ukraine could never join NATO, and to ferment a conflict in East Ukraine to create instability. 8 years of hybrid war later he just got sick of the lack of results and fully invaded Ukraine.

It's as black/white as you can get from a leader obsessed with conquering Ukraine.

A criminal fiefdom? Much like the Donbas then. This area and Luzhansk were always famous for a culture of gangsterism and corruption (no surprise that it's the home region of Yanukovich). The hoodlums running riot there took the Russian incursion as a chance to consolidate a mafia state. The Donbas had the highest level of criminal activity in all of Ukraine. Even after the separatists achieved their aims the struggles between criminal elements, often synonomous with separatists continued. When the separatist leader Zakharchenko was killed by a car bomb many speculated that he was assassinated by internal enemies after he lost a power struggle.

Here we go again, with another pack of lies.

Continuously posts Russian propaganda lies without any substantiation.

Evidence offered for these outbursts of Russian propaganda about what was happening in Donbas between 2014 and 2022. Zero.

Evidence offered for Russian compliance with Minsk treaty. Zero.

Conveniently forgetting Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in a treaty with Russia, which Russia violated by invading Crimea.

One characteristic of this propaganda technique jumps out, and is particularly apposite in this thread by poster bobowen:

"...the "shameless" approach to disseminating falsehoods and contradictory messages".

Bobowen has been flagged to moderators as a troll.