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LIV Golf Invitational League...... NO Political/Ethical conflict posts, see Post#2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Brooks Koepka has been one of the most outspoken players against this thing.

    More players will go but the vast majority of fans won't care and won't follow. The biggest appeal golf has is the legacy. Fans love golf because of the history and comparing the present to the past. They don't watch it really for excitement. Why would fans give a f*** about these events? Every player who plays at these events is a winner. It's not even a competition really. The fundamental appeal of sport is that there is a risk of losing. Watch LIV you may as well be watching lads going to their office jobs.

    Next Man City manager: You lot may all be internationals and have won all the domestic honours there are to win under Pep. But as far as I'm concerned, the first thing you can do for me is to chuck all your medals and all your caps and all your pots and all your pans into the biggest **** dustbin you can find, because you've never won any of them fairly. You've done it all by bloody cheating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    Very odd take, on legacy and Brooks. Winning a standard event isn't legacy to these guys it's majors, but more importantly it's money. Simple as.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭Augme


    They need at least 3-4 of the top players to make it viable. Also the more average players that go to LIV the worse it probably is for the long-term viability of LIV.


    It would be funny if you end up in a situation where the pga tour has smaller fields with 90% of the field being at the elite level while LIV has weak fields with 10% being elite and the rest is the tour plodders etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,043 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭big_drive


    I really hope Lowry doesn't end up ever going to this thing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Golf on TV is so slow and boring to watch in general. These days I stick to the Majors and any tournament an Irish player is in contention on the Sunday.

    From what I'm reading about LIV, it seems pretty naff and not likely to be added to my viewing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,836 ✭✭✭Trampas


    But he’s a family to think about. I wonder how many will use that excuse



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,043 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I couldn't see Lowry do it ... but you never know.

    At the end of the day, golf is the sport of free market capitalism...so nothing should surprise anyone.

    Golf tours have been soulless vehicles of cash for a long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,061 ✭✭✭Ohmeha


    Lowry was defensive when quizzed about his participation in the Saudi open earlier in the year playing the I'm not a politician stock answer but after that he pretty much shot down participating in a breakaway league saying it didn't sit well with him

    After DJ's categorical commitment to the PGA tour a few months back I wouldn't make any confident predictions on how resilient golfers will be to some of these preposterous sums of dollars being waved in their faces



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  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Shank Williams


    i don’t care that much about the PGA tbh, as long as the majors aren’t touched it wouldn’t bother me if it was usurped IF we saw a stronger mix of courses (worldwide too)

    that’s not going to happen though and Christ those team names are naff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,043 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    McDowell said he is doing it for the kids ....lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,164 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Hopefully the coverage will be good, coverage on the pga tour is generally terrible, big opportunity for LIV here to revolutionise it.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    If I were the players’ agents I wouldn’t be letting them do any press conferences indefinitely until they can come up with some sort of defence to playing that isn’t embarrassing like that



  • Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rooney30


    I absolutely could see Lowry go. He’ll be gone in a heartbeat if this thing gathers momentum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,892 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Ya I agree. Same with most players probably which is grim



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,532 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    It's on youtube so should at least be ad free. Be an own goal not to provide decent coverage.

    Seeing rumours of Bryson lined up for the next event, so some smaller name player going to get canned soon enough



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭Russman


    I don't know which would be best or worst from the PGA & Euro tours' perspectives:

    Lets say DJ wins the first two events, does any fan really care about him winning another few million ? but would say Rory and all the other top guys be influenced by it ?

    On the other hand lets say a complete nobody wins the opener and picks up a few million for himself - would aspiring new pros now be inclined to try to get onto that tour instead of the PGA or DP World tours ? DP World could become even more of a developmental feeder tour than it already is.

    Interesting times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    it's the appearance money these guys are getting(millions probably a year salary on the pga tour), and their share of the media rights which makes a huge difference,

    it's a no brainer for players, this faux outrage over the saudis is ridiculous, ah sure it was ok for the european tour and my favourite football team but not Greg Norman !



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    "a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Best thing LIV could do is give McDowell another few million to take a vow of silence. David Brent wouldn't get close to him. Absolute waffler, even DJ is wondering where the next accent is going to hail from.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I like the 3 day shotgun format, it eliminates weather differentials and levels the field way more than current timetabling, no cut is interesting too, still have an (outside) chance on final day to make up ground.

    If participation in the Majors is not impacted then loads more will jump, especially when it reaches US shores.

    Great to see free YouTube coverage and Sky Sports losing their dominance.

    There's quite a bit of shaking the tree going on here...(ignoring the Team thingy which I've no interest in)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 800 ✭✭✭SeeMoreBut


    Shotgun start is good for weather but all playing the course a different way. Some start on easy hole and others not. Pro's and cons to each way. If DJ wins the 1st few will things go badly



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Have you used youtube lately? Adds every few minutes unless you pay for premium package.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,164 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    You can get the premium for 2 euro a month, check out the bargain alerts forum.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,164 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    If they do end up getting Dechambeau, Rickie Fowler and Brooks it will be a fair dent to the PGA tour.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭Panrich


    I know a lot of people are saying this shake-up is a good thing or will be in the long run but I don’t agree.

    Already we are seeing here those who are delighting in the new tour and those who are very opposed. No matter which way this ends up, there will be lots of people aggrieved. I think that golf will be the loser in the long run and people like me who have turned a blind eye to the obscene amounts of money being made and the very questionable politics of most of the elite players will just switch off altogether.



  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭IAmTitleist


    The reality is that this tour and the PGA tour could easily have operated in tandem.

    But the PGA tour wants the monopoly on top quality golf and if they are that stubborn about it then i say good luck to LIV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Don't think so. It's filling up with players that struggle to win and joining LIV gives them way more money without having to win anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭Russman


    But is it the monopoly on top quality golf they want or is it to protect the likes of the John Deere or Sanderson Farms Classics ? I mean there's probably at least 10/15 events on the PGA each year that nobody outside of the hosting towns would miss. You're right though, the tours could easily IMO come to an arrangement to operate in tandem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dublin49


    The PGA sunk Norman's first effort in the 90s but I think they are going to have to deal with him now.If Norman only wants 16 weekends I am sure the PGA will play ball once their flag ship tournaments get a free run.Norman will want ranking points for his tournaments so his players can enrich themselves without dropping down the rankings so he will be willing to trade.I can see his events revert to standard 4 day strokeplay once he has a decent field to work with.It certainly is seimic ,and there will be unintended consequences for sure.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Folks, we've asked before, no political references, we are not a politics Forum, stick to the Golf chat please.

    OT posts deleted, if you wish to raise a chat on the ethics/politics of this venture then do so elsewhere.

    Tks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    Who controls the OWGR and the allocation of Ranking points to an event? Whenever there is a conversation of ranking points i always think of the interview Ronnie O'Sullivan done on about ranking point :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I think it'll burn itself out in a year or two. Most people and players who are already multi millionaires are more interested in the majors. I have zero interest in Johnson or Mickelson getting even richer. Give me Mcilroy or Lowry walking down the 18th on a Sunday with a chance of winning.

    Remember Lowry in the Open? LIV won't be able to match that in any way shape or form.

    In saying that I could be totally wrong and this could be the end of the PGA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Martin567


    Shotgun start will only eliminate weather differentials if the field is a maximum of 54 players. A regular field of 156 would require 3 separate shotgun starts and the same weather changes would apply.

    Is this what Greg Norman means by providing more opportunities to players while reducing the size of the field by 66%?

    If he gets what he wants and all the top players join, nobody outside the top 50 in the world will be competing. If world ranking points are eventually given too, it would become a closed shop.

    Difficult to see any benefits to the overall game out of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dublin49


    One potential issue I see is the reaction of major sponsors in general to a sport that is deemed at least by some to have knowingly become involved in sports washing.Major corporations are ultra conscious of brand image and may make the decision Golf has moved from being a safe bet to a Sport that they might no longer want to be associated with.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not a fan of this Saudi Golf league and it’s not just because of the political and ethical issues that have been discussed here and beyond.

    This LIV wheelbarrow series is elitist and will make the gap between the haves and have nots in the pro game even larger.

    I think of the likes of Paul Dunne, Cormac Sharvin and Gavin Moynihan would jump on a chance to play in this league, but their rankings on both the dp world and challenge tours are so poor, that they have little chance of competing for the big bucks.

    Imagine the frustration of those three players I mentioned above, seeing the field this week and looking at some of the players playing in England this week and thinking to themselves, that on my day I’m every bit as good as the likes of Peter Uihlein, Blake Windred to name but a few.

    For Dunne and Moynihan, they are playing on the challenge tour in Spain tomorrow that’s 100 times less prize money then what’s on offer in Centurion this week.

    If Greg Norman really cares for “growing the game” that he is proclaiming to do, then he should introduce a q school for the Saudi Golf league at the end of the season. There should be one Q School event at each continent. Top 10 players in each event at tournaments end, gets you onto the tour for 2023. With conditional status for those below 10th to 25th. Increase the field sizes to 120 plus would also help this tour gain creditability.

    But these 48 man field events, will do nothing to dial down the perception that golf is an elitist game and a sport for the rich. That’s my biggest concern. I’m a massive golf fan and I fear the reputation of the game, rather been enhanced with this new tour could be damaged beyond repair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭OEP


    I don't think DJ will win the first few, might win one alright. He's not in good form for a start, and then on any given day any of the top 500 (pulled that from thin air) can shoot a low score, or hit a streak of form. The top players obviously shoot lower scores much more consistently but tournaments are hard to win. You could throw any of the top 10 in the world into a Korn Ferry tournament, and the odds of the field winning will be shorter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭Russman


    If the two latest names reported below as signing up are true, then there's a danger of the trickle of players becoming a torrent IMO.


    OK these two are probably not overly popular, but they're still top players. I can imagine if another really big name jumped ship it might really throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

    Not sure I fully buy the elitist thing tbh, isn't that what the WGCs ultimately are ? Not much different than OWGR points being awarded for Tiger's end of year get together in the past.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,605 ✭✭✭blue note


    Plus the fact that it's only 54 holes will increase the chances of a lower ranked player winning it. The cream will always rise to the top over time. But I'd be confident in guessing that if you look at the ranking of the players with an 18 hole lead in a tournament, then 36, 54, 72, that the ranking would get lower the more golf you play. The less golf you play the more it will favour the weaker players.


    With Bryson and Reed, that makes it 5 of the last 15 major winners. I really think dismissing the field as uninspiring is just silly at this stage. It's a decent field and it's only going to get stronger.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,532 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Daily with a 2 year old, so yeah premium is a must. But for live events I'm unsure if there are ads.

    Fun to see more big names signing up, even if it is 2 names people don't care for. Event sponsors for pga won't like seeing potential field of big names dwindling. Feel sorry for lower down players, they took the chance to earn big money and will be turfed out now (assuming it's staying at 48 players per field)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,836 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Mc Dowell must have committed to be a pr role. One thing he said it won’t speed up the game as mentioned 4.5 to 5 hours.


    Reed and Bryson are like marmite as they say.

    So is the team or individual more important? If team is winning will players look at the leaderboard and say my shot selection is based on a team score than individual. Should be one or the other.


    They should have allowed range finders to speed up play



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    3 days, perfect for Rors!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Maybe they will have qualifiers? I'd say they will bring amateurs in also, future stars



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Innish_Rebel


    looking at the website:

    Augusta; USGA; R&A; PGA; PGA tour; European tour & WGC's are the founders of the OWGR - non of them would be big LIV fans!!!

    In terms of majors access - supposedly Danny Willett asked Augusta what would his invite status be if he joined the LIV golf & response was he wouldn't be left back onto property never mind invitation to participate!!! Not sure how true, but I have heard a few times the Masters were very loud opponents to LIV


    I totally agree with USGA & I expect R&A will follow suit - this years qualification process is set & I think the "open" status must be maintained - but without OWGR points going forward then any pro's joining will potentially need to go through open qualifying.

    Lastly from me for now - people cannot be surprised that Bryson & Reed are rumoured to go - Bryson had signed up until Phil blew it all up, I was surprised he didn't join this 1st event... Reed - well to be fair the guy can barely get a sponsor, so LIV would be the ideal place for him. Listening to Rick Shields podcast & to be fair his coverage & knowledge of the situation is quite light - hasn't gone very deep. But he started out by saying he was amazed by who was in the field, his guest Sophie Walker was the complete opposite - there were no names that surprised her, I think everyone who had their finger to the pulse in the last few weeks could see this & there definitely will be more join the US legs & more again after the Fed-ex cup. The money is just obscene so it will turn heads. My fear is to the detriment of golf long term - we will end up with even fewer events where the top guys go head to head... PGA tour - the ball is in your court now...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭paulanthony




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭Augme


    Most golf fans would have paid good money to get rid of Partick Redd from the tour!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,532 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Could be a plan, makes it just the same as pga tour then



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 jimiseve


    PGA or DP World cannot bury their heads in the sand. They would have been better off joining with LIV. Maybe LIV could have sponsored 4 world championships - that might have given them enough publicity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I’m going to tune in and see how it looks, if it grips me I’ll watch it. It’s hard to tell how it will do over the long term or what damage it could do to the PGA Tour. Maybe the PGA Tour will fight back and make some changes.

    I hope they have lots of cameras out there so we can see a lot of the players. Plenty of money sloshing about so hopefully they have high quality coverage.

    Some of the PGA events where the big players rested themselves were pretty boring, it would be good if they could come to some arrangement so we could see the best players turn up for the bigger PGA Tour events as well as the LIV Tour, DP World Tour, The Majors and the Ryder Cup. From a fans perspective that would be ideal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,164 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Surely with the reduced fields and lots of money they could put together a masters style app to show every shot.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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