Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

I've already explained several times, why am I here - I have friends and relatives in both Russia and Ukraine, although I'm not Russian. And I'm really emotional about all of that.

So, according to your words, civilised western world is repulsed by Russian culture.

Why do you think then civilised western world didn't pay such attention to the Syrian, Afghan, Iraq wars?

500.000 people died in Iraq. 500.000 in Syrian "civil" war (warmed up by well known western guys). 60.000 in Afghan.

1M people just in last 20 years! (or even less?)

Why we didn't see Iraq/Syrian/Afghan flags on the European streets and bus stops? Why nobody supported Iraq just like that? Because Western people are more important than Eastern? Or western people are repulsed by eastern culture too?..

I still haven't received any answers on this question here.

Think you are mixing me up with someone else there my friend. I never said any of those things. The closest thing in your list to me would be when I stated that Kiev was a decoy attack and that it kept Ukrainian forces away from the South until Mariupol was cut off from the rest of the country. Everything else there is someone else's claims. You can go back and check.

Minsk 2 was signed by Ukraine and Russia with co signatories. It was considered by all parties at the talks as the best way forward for peace. Then, suddenly, in pure Boris Johnson U turn style, the Ukrainians led by Zelensky decided they wanted to negotiate a new agreement that would allow them to join NATO. This set the path for escalation. You can't sign an agreement and then years later suddenly say "No. that agreement isn't fair" just because you have neo cons from the states behind the scenes telling you to. Its an international agreement for gods sake.

And I think the Budapest memorandum was initially violated when the Far Right/CIA orchestrated coup in 2014 left the fate of Ethnic Russians in a precarious state to say the least. Crimea was annexed due to a breakdown in the Ukrainian Governmental Structures that up until that point had safeguarded the interests and culture of Ethnic Russians within Ukraine.

how convenient....

The former president of Russia from 2008 to 2012

"Evidence offered for these outbursts of Russian propaganda about what was happening in Donbas between 2014 and 2022 - deliberate shelling of schools etc. Zero."

Here is a report from the BBC. The attack happened within the city of Donetsk then held by the rebel militia's. The BBC refused to assign blame but I'm pretty sure the rebels didn't bomb their own schools with their own kids.

"Do you accept Russian has some responsibility for the deaths of civilians in Donbas in the conflict between 2014-2022? Or are you assigning all responsibility to Ukraine?"

I accept that the DPR/LPR forces were also responsible for civilian deaths during the last 8 years. Of the estimated 14,000 deaths, 6,500 LPR/DPR soldiers were killed along with 3,400 civilians. Considering the theatre of operations was in the middle of a majority Russian speaking area I think its safe to say the majority of these would not have been killed by the LPR/DPR forces as these were their own people. The remaining 4000 deaths were Ukrainian forces / militia's. Very few Pro Ukrainian civilians are listed as victims but I have no doubt there were many.

"Russian was never in compliance with Minsk, it never withdrew its forces from the regions covered by the accord."

Russia was never officially part of the war just as the US/UK weren't officially part of the war. Did they both provide training and weaponry to their proxies? No doubt both did. But that was not a part of the Minsk agreement. A ceasefire between the official active combatants (DPR/LPR & UAF) was attempted many times only to be broken by the Far Right militia's on the Ukrainian side who were always opposed to the agreement. They told Zelensky that they would never honor the agreement. When he realised they wouldn't he decided to abandon them completely. Here is an article on his attempt to implement Minsk by allowing elections in the Donbass. In it you will see the trouble he had with the Asov faction in implementing it.

"Evidence of Ukranian violation of Budapest agreement. Zero."

The 2014 coup and the ousting of the democratically elected President without a vote.

So no actual evidence that Ukranian forces deliberately targeted a school.

The conflict was in a Russian speaking area, that says nothing of who was responsible. Many Russian speaking Ukranians want to stay Ukranian. Many Russian speaking Ukranians have been killed during Russia's illegal invasion and in war crimes.

Russia were in violation of Minsk which was signed by their ambassador. DPR-LPR contained Russian military after the agreement signed in clear violation. They never left. Ukraine complied with Minsk as much as they could do within their own power. Ukraine has implemented as much of Minsk as can reasonably be done while Russia still occupies its territory.

Earlier you accused Ukraine of violating Minsk by seeking NATO membership. You provided no evidence to support this. Ukraine did not sign any agreement precluding membership of NATO.

And nope, Ukraine have not violated the Budapest agreement. Russian interference with the President, turning him into a stooge was a violation of Ukranian sovereignty. And when the Ukranian people and parliament threw him out, as was their right, it had nothing to do with the Budapest agreement. What clause of the Budapest agreement have they violated?

We know who violated Budapest. Russia, by sending its soldiers into Ukranian territory in Crimea and Donbas.

Your posts are just exercises in Russian lies.

"The conflict was in a Russian speaking area, that says nothing of who was responsible. "

It was in a rebel held city. By your rationale here you would also have to be open to the possibility that the Bucha, Maternity Hospital & Mariupol theatre attacks were shelled by the Ukrainians. Are you willing to do that? Probably not I would wager.

"Earlier you accused Ukraine of violating Minsk by seeking NATO membership. You provided no evidence to support this."

This article appeared in the Wall Street journal but since its behind a paywall you can access it through this link:

https://www.realcleardefense.com/2022/03/05/the_two_blunders_that_caused_the_ukraine_war_820181.html

from the WSJ article:

In November 2021 "the U.S. and Ukraine signed a Charter on Strategic Partnership, which asserted America’s support for Kyiv’s right to pursue membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization."

Here is the actual agreement between the two countries:

https://www.state.gov/u-s-ukraine-charter-on-strategic-partnership/

It was this agreement more than anything that influenced the decision of Russia to invade as according to Robert Service in the WSJ article above:

"The pact made it likelier than ever that Ukraine would eventually join NATO—an intolerable prospect for Vladimir Putin. “It was the last straw,” Mr. Service says. Preparations immediately began for Russia’s so-called special military operation in Ukraine."

You keep calling me a liar and I keep supplying you with proof from western media sources which you refuse to believe.

All of the claims about Russian people being victims of "genocide" in the Donbass become a bit hard to believe when you remember that the regime making the claims is a criminal and deeply corrupt one, which tells lies on an industrial scale (including to its own citizens), has a despot for a ruler and which has form for genocide itself.

Oh my dear Senate representative, if you're not a foreign bot, but a real European local, we'll feel your "Jesus Christ go easy on the vodka" in full growth this winter I'm afraid.

They've admitted to no less than a desire and a will to commit genocide out of their own mouths. When people promise things it's best to take them at their word. Medvedev-''While I am alive I will do everything to make them disappear''; ''Ukrainian children should be killed too because they will seek vengeance when they grow up'';''Perhaps two million of the Ukrainians are irredemable'' (and presumably must be dealt with accordingly...we can guess how);''The whole population is infected with nazism and must be re-educated. It may take twenty years''; ''We will have tribunals for all the politicians and journalists''; ''We shall have public hangings of the Ukrainians''; ''Ukraine isn't a real country...its not a real language''; ''Ukrainian nationalism is naziism by definition''; And don't forget the collaborator who fled Ukraine and now calls on Putin to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine. All of these statements from Russian TV personalities and public figures are a warrant for genocide. Before the Second World War people should have listened to what was being said and promised in publications like the Völkischer Beobachter and Der Stürmer.

The excuse I've seen given is that it's "just rhetoric".

As that country is literally invading another and carrying out unspeakable crimes.