Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Nazi Germany produced the Tiger Tank, had an impressive industrial capacity and top-rank scientists and technicians, nearly beat the Allies to a jet airplane design and anticipated Western aircraft designs by many years in the Horten flying wing and Triebflugel. Wow! They were great lads, weren't they? Gotta love those Nazis!

Ukraine as a country has signed no agreement either with another sovereign nation or legitimate international authority obliging it to be neutral.

Whatever declarations were made by 'state soviets', they are not an international agreement, and are entirely superseded by those such as Budapest - unless referenced therein, which they were not.

Ukraine has not violated the Budapest agreement. Russia repeatedly has. That is the truth of the matter. Anything else are Russian lies and propaganda.

She supported appeasement of Putin, and we see how that has turned out. If Ukraine had joined NATO starting in 2008, it's very unlikely Russia would have invaded, or annexed Crimea, or proxy invaded the East of the country.

She did, but in fairness she thought integrating Russia into the West would reduce any military threat and make a Cold War impossible.

She backed the wrong horse of course, but Putin becoming more hawkish, belligerent and isolationist over the last 10 years was largely of his own doing and could hardly be said to be her fault. Relations with the West were pretty good up until 2014 but then Putin started to change.

This is not true. Oh, yeah - here it is customary to say: "This is an utter lies!"

Did you ask Ukrainians? They wanted to keep working and live their lives without EU/NATO. Then Ukro-gov explained them during last decade that they should want to join NATO and EU. That was not funny, poor Ukrainians believed in this, while the reality is that nobody among EU govs wanted Ukraine to join. Poor, weak country, no infra - would be sucking all the juices from EU economy like Greece, and even worse. Just like now, during the war.

Corruption of Ukrainian even worse than in Russia, everything is just stolen. People are poor to zero. Now they are paying their utility bills, which takes 40-50% of their salaries.

If Europe or NATO wanted to stop this war, they'd let Ukraine to join quickly, and would threaten Putin with NATO nuclear weapon. What happens instead?

Repeating again: Ukrainians of freed regions are happy that Russian army came and freed them from Ukor-nazis.

Go and ask Ukrainians from LNR and DNR - if they're happy or not. Just look at the queue of people in Luganskaya region, to get their Russian passports:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMkaJePSs2I

The reality is that unfortunately a big part of Ukraine will become Russian territory soon. Just accept it as a reality.

P.S. I don't support this fact. This is painful to see of how it happens. But you must be blind not to see it.

Mother of God, so much anger in a single civilised European man...

Do you have a family, bro? Why are so angry living in successful European country? I bet you can't even perceive my words without thinking that I'm sarcastic. But I'm not.

I'm not a bot, but I'm really enjoying with Irish people - they are kind and welcoming. That's why I'm also surprised if you're a real Irish - I simply didn't see Irish with so much anger.

I have a couple of Irish friends already, which is a big luck I think.

Why I don't want my kids live there, in Russia? Because, firstly, I'm not Russian, so my country of origin is different. :)

Also I did live there for some time and saw the system from the inside. It's not perfect, but it's not that bad how you're painting it from your side. Putin is a super-smart idiot - that's true (yes, and this is the problem when a KGB person is really smart, and then becomes a president!) But he is smart, so they're doing pretty good things, developing businesses. The educational system is disputable (though some people don't think so, and they're glad) - starting from 5th grade it's not an education IMHO, it's just a kid's torture with loads of facts, and old soviet-minded teachers. Higher education is really good. This why the world loves Russian mathematicians and programmers.

But there are also very smart people, really intelligent. I really regret that world doesn't know and gets infected with Russophobia without knowing who normal Russians really are, especially of intellectual professions.

So why am I here? Because I really like Ireland. And I'm really grateful for meeting such beautiful country with such kind and cheerful people. It's not a heaven, there are some disadvantages. Teenagers are allowed to do really nasty things - and they won't be punished. They simply don't respect people. This is not the case in Russian-speaking countries - there is more respect to elderly people from teenagers, especially in such regions like Chechnya, South Osetia etc. Irish educational system is really-really weak in most schools, so we hire tutors here. The taxes are SUPER high. But all in all it's not that bad.

TBH, I'd live normal life in almost any country starting from Ural mountains and western.

It's probably only you, who was born in Ireland and not happy with his own life, growing and cherishing anger against evil Russians.

Explaining only one time. Only for you.

Sorry I was sarcastic, but it simply looks like you're trolling, because you're asking such questions just like you don't understand. Or you're trying to make me angry? If so - it's not possible, man. It would be really funny to get angry at letters on the monitor. I'm not getting angry at anyone here.

First, Russia - is NOT my country. Okay? If I'm saying anything positive about any country, this doesn't mean I'm standing for it. In any nation there are good people and idiots (for simplicity). And that explains everything.

Intelligent people (and those are the smallest group), middle level and, well, the rest. "The rest" - most of them are pensioners and those who are listening to propaganda etc. The middle and intelligent class - who see what happens, and using their own minds. It's hard to make them just believe the government like here in Europe. Here people simply tend to believe whatever they say. Intelligent Russians are a bit different. But those are a small group as I said. And unfortunately most of them don't have any gov-impact.

Well, pretty the same as here, in Ireland and in any other country.

Next. Russian gov is driven by security forces people. Putin is KGB, pro-Stalin guy. That's clear. And the methods the same. Unfortunately people lived in USSR for 70 years, 3 generations of "The rest" (the biggest population) people are used to such kind of government, and simply don't perceive any other kind of it.

BTW, pretty the same picture with Ukrainian people. So their mindset is actually not compatible with yours, and they can't be ruled by western principles. Why? Well, because they still have the same Russain-like-mindset, as they were in USSR for the same 70 years. That's what civilian Euro people simply don't understand (but EU gov does) - one doesn't simply integrate Ukraine into Europe. And, well, they have pretty same tendency to kleptocracy, committing atrocities daily etc... Sneaky west set the slavic nations on each other.

And it'll require pretty much time until these type of people will be replaced with new visioners. But they will come.

Is that clear now?

Okay. Go ahead with your trolling and anger again...

She's someone who needs to justify her own catastrophic failures. How else is she going to do it?

It

That hasn't turned out very well for the cretin in the Kremlin now that Sweden and Finland have applied to join.

So you have no source saying the Russians have left Moscow and St Petersburg undefended? Right

There is no contradiction there, the point is that no country can relax because at some point in future the means to intercept nuclear weapons may well exist and they will simply be taken out of the equation, its for this reason the Russians (and the US and other "powers") all still consider territory and proximity to hostile neighbours as strategic.

Sorry, but you sound just like typical Ukrainian, who drunk with Ukro-propaganda.

Because you're painting everything into black-white colours, and seems you don't want to widen your mind just a little bit. Also you firmly believe like last hundred years Ukraine was a separate country and a great nation made out of different material than Russians (seems because of that there are so many Ukro-Russian and Russo-Ukrainian families in both countries, lots of relatives and others). Finally, so much hatred to all the Russians and blind proudness with Ukrainians.

For this reason, the Ukrainians (not just "Ukraine") will face the hard fate of deep complacency with their "nation" in future decades. This trait won't let you raise your country as you described above.

And Europe and the rest of the world will see what Ukraine really is.

Sad...

An estimated 75%, not 100% not undefended Moscow and St Petersburg.

Also if you had read my posts I explained that the threat of NATO on their border is less of an imminent threat and more of a long term threat - the real threat is when nuclear weapons are widely interceptable. So while they will keep pushing with hypersonic missile technology, eventually the defense mechanisms may catch up with them and then the nuclear deterrent is no longer a deterrent. If at this stage they have NATO on all their borders then they are in real trouble.

I dont know, my direct line to the kremlin has been cut off by sanctions so I cant ask for you. 🙄

Maybe because of some historical attachment to Ukraine, maybe because strategically Ukraine is much more of a vulnerability than the Finnish border. Also its Finland and Sweden, not Finland and Norway

I would like to learn your opinion first - why is it so? I'm sure you won't be able to explain.

Is there anyone on this thread who thinks that a nuclear exchange is unthinkable?

That the development of hypersonic missiles is making this moreso.?

This is madness.Even an exchange with NK could be a global catastrophe

Why are nuclear possibility mongers not just locked up for their own and our own good?

Hold on, sorry, but you've not finished. You said above: "Intelligent" Russians.

What can you say about the Russians themselves? Are they silly? Bad? Evil? Stupid? Elaborate on this please.

Thank you for this informative post, it is interesting to hear a Ukrainian perspective on the horror that is unfolding there.

I fear you may be accurate about the loss of Donbass and Crimea to Russia, what is more worrying is that the occupation has taken vast swathes of territory in the east, along the Sea of Azov, and along the Black Sea. It is probable that Russia will no relinquish these gains either. Moreover, the Russians will likely try to take Odesa and surrounding areas as well.

All very pessimistic, I know, but the seizure of land is continuing with no end in sight.

Do you think that Ukraine will survive as an independent country after this horror ends?

I don't believe that a nuclear exchange is unthinkable unfortunately.

All I can hope is that, as Sting (The Police) sang: "I hope the Russians love their children too"

Yes, ironically it's the East that will suffer and not the West of the country where all the nationalists and Bandera supporters are. On the other hand, there is nothing in the West that may be worth going after for Putin and it'll be impossible to control afterwards.

Question however for many, especially vulnerable like pensioners and especially in the East is when this European prosperity is going to happen. People's incomes vs low prices were at its manageable (as sad as it is) under Yanukovich. From 2014 onwards it has all become one big mess. You see, us in the West - you'd struggle to find a family there that doesn't have someone working abroad supporting the rest of the family and this set up goes back to 90s. As a result, for many living there it isn't that hard to be wanting to become part of EU, be very vocal about this or that when once a month they get a chance to collect their additional income at the Western Union outlet sent to them by their parent working hard in the EU.

On the other hand in the Donbas region - in the first 20 years of Ukraine's independence you'd struggle to find a Ukrainian from there working abroad in Poland, Czech, UK, the US. They were all working locally driving the economy and probably had little time to be thinking about EU, etc. They were more interest in cheap utility bills and better wages.

This is how different the two regions are - we've been working (legally or illegally) in the EU since early 90s, they haven't. We think once we get into EU our teachers will be on 40k+, they are not so sure.

Older generation on both sides of the country, especially now, just wants a decent life, decent healthcare and I doubt they care under EU or under what else this happens. My mother's pension is 120$ per month. She broke a hip. Under free medical healthcare she was offered to be put into plaster and go home and die. This is what happens if you don't have $3k cash to pay for the operation. I am afraid, I may not live to see the prosperity one way or the other.

Everything should have been done to prevent this war from happening but very little was.

I didn't quote any claims from Russia. That would lack integrity. I would never quote anything from Russian sources as they have an agenda and a narrative to push just like every other belligerent in the conflict.

And you didn't back up any assertion. You basically posted a link of the que cards from Blinkens morning press conference's in March.

Honestly Dougal, this is very basic stuff. Do you think there are over 2.2 million Russians running around the forests of Ukraine? If you don't (and I hope you don't) then the "evidence" you provided is obviously nonsense.

"In 2010 the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) estimated that the Russian Armed Forces numbered about 1,027,000 active troops and in the region of 2,035,000 reserves (largely ex-conscripts)."

From:

Support in Kherson would be apprx 50/50. It's a farming region, pretty self sufficient. They may just decide to get on with their lives and not bother to try and breakout from under the Russians. I'd imagine at the moment they are simply busy working as it cannot wait until winter))

@correct horse battery staple

That would be nice.He would suffer the fate of Caesar's enemies - the People's general /sarc.

Unlike his apparent hero Bony the First it would be Vlad the Last(twinned with Ceacescu let us hope)