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The grant needs to go!

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12467…13

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    #92
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178462#Comment_119178462

    SEAI Consumer grant applies to taxi purchases.

    I processed 3 of them for family last year alone.



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    #93
    UID0
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119179384#Comment_119179384

    I thought the eSPSV grant was the scheme for taxis. Gives them up to €25k towards an EV. They're still eligible for the €600 from the SEAI towards an EVSE which commercial purchasers aren't.



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    #94
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,931 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    the eSPSV grant, the SEAI grant and the VRT rebate all apply to taxi purchasers afaik



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    #95
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119179479#Comment_119179479

    Yes. We put 2x eNiros on the road last year. One for €28k and another for €17k. The lower one got in early 2021 before Kia increased their prices and the general uptake of EV’s took off. Another MG5 on the road for €10,400.

    You purchase the car in the same way as any other punter. Through the dealer for the RRP. €37,500 for the eNiro for example. That price includes the SEAI Grant of €5k. To leave the dealer ship you tax it there and then for 3 months.

    Then you process the change over to an SPSV. Test, equipment and suitability.

    Sold the old cars to N2 Salvage. They paid us €1600 for the 132 Prius. Received a cert of destruction.

    Sent all that to NTA and a further 20km in grants received.

    The 25k is for WAV I believe.

    Then got the Wallbox Pulsar Plus fitted for €1199. Then got the €600 grant back.



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    #96
    eagerv
    Registered Users Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭eagerv


    A problem I can see with our high taxes on EVs (and €5k grant on lesser priced ones) is that family cars which are presently popular in Ireland such as ID.4, Ioniq 5, EV6, Model 3 etc, which atm just scrape in with the grant. As prices increase it will only be the base models of the above that will be the main sellers, ie what people can afford.

    This appears all well and good. The grant going where it should go, at the more affordable end of the market to help stimulate growth. But in reality the manufacturers at the moment want to sell their higher specced cars, where they make the most profit. I can see where they simply will not sell only base models into a very small market, preferring to sell where tax systems allow them to sell a broader range.



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    #97
    UID0
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119179545#Comment_119179545

    I hadn't realised taxi drivers were eligible for the SEAI grant as well. Does the €5k apply if the it's a company as opposed to a sole trader? It's not surprising how many EV taxis there are on the roads at that level of incentive, and that all of the funding for this year has been used already.

    There's a list on the NTA website for what vehicles are eligible. I'm surprised that the Zoe is still acceptable.



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    #98
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178515#Comment_119178515

    The second hand vehicles would come from the same place as the new vehicles - imports.

    I'm not an expert on designing such schemes, so I'm not gonna try, but it wouldn't take rocket science to provide a subsidy for purchases of 2nd hand EVs, subject to some conditions.



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    #99
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119179760#Comment_119179760

    Zoe, like the original Leaf doesn’t meet the space requirements but gets an exemption to encourage EV use.

    There is no reference to sole trader, company etc when buying.

    At the point of purchase the owner is a private individual. The fact he/she converts it to SPSV afterwards is nothing to do with the SEAI.



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    #100
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,320 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I find it very surprising that not at least a very significant number of taxis in Dublin are EVs by now. The financial incentives are unreal and the benefits almost as good, car never down for maintenance, charging overnight at home about 80% cheaper than diesel or petrol - no need to charge during shift. All the EV taxi drivers I ever talk to are very happy with all this. And most of the ones I talk to with diesels says they'll always drive a diesel (rolleyes - usually older Irish gentlemen) and the hybrid drivers just aren't sure yet. There's a lot of hybrid taxis, don't want to be racist but they seem to be the choice of vehicle for certain drivers born not in Ireland



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    #101
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119179885#Comment_119179885

    There isn't a right hand drive country with an oversupply of 2nd hand vehicles to make it worth while. Maybe if you can't figure such a system you shouldn't propose one, we already have the VRT exemption which was incentive enough before Brexit for cars to be brought over from the UK.

    Let's say we applied the current SEAI grant to 2nd hand imports, your effectively giving money to UK tax payers to sell their cars in Ireland instead of the UK. I don't think many people would be happy putting money into the pockets of UK taxpayers.



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    #102
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180433#Comment_119180433

    There's no oversupply of new RHD vehicles either, but that hasn't held us back from grant aiding them.



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    #103
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181592#Comment_119181592

    The grant at least influences the supply of RHD vs LHD leaving the factory. I thought you said you understood how supply chains work?



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    #104
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181683#Comment_119181683

    If you think a €5k grant In a VERY small market is influencing manufacturing decisions in Korea and China, I don’t know what to tell ya.



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    #105
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181778#Comment_119181778

    That I'm right and you want to thank me for introducing you to the concept of order led manufacturing?



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    #106
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180431#Comment_119180431

    I'd wage a bet there is at least some genuine reason's behind the lack of uptake among taxi owners



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    #107
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181811#Comment_119181811

    One taxi driver I spoke said his biggest issue was getting a home charger installed, his house required significant electrical work before getting the new circuit installed. He absolutely wanted to make the move, but couldn't due to the hidden cost.



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    #108
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,320 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    He'd get an asset basically for free thanks to the tax payer (he will never have a cent depreciation on it, so saving many thousands a year), he will save thousands per year in fuel and maintenance. And he won't spend a few grand one off getting an electrical upgrade to his house? I don't buy it.



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    #109
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,715 ✭✭✭creedp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181683#Comment_119181683

    Pity the UK, being a decent sized RHD market on our doorstep, aren't nearly as generous as ourselves when it comes to subsidising new expensive EVs. Is there any evidence manufacturers are prioritising Ireland for their severely constrained supply of RHD EVs?

    Common problem with grants, those who benefit from them are reluctant to support their removal.



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    #110
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181801#Comment_119181801
    https://giphy.com/gifs/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu

    Sure Liam



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    #111
    UID0
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180431#Comment_119180431

    The grant scheme for taxis has been fully subscribed every year. The NTA had a press release in April that the scheme for 2022 was fully subscribed, so even if a driver wanted to move to an EV, they'll wait until they see if the scheme is continued for next year.



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    #112
    eagerv
    Registered Users Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭eagerv


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182035#Comment_119182035

    Pity the UK, being a decent sized RHD market on our doorstep, aren't nearly as generous as ourselves when it comes to subsidising new expensive EVs

    But surely they are more generous than us at subsidising new expensive EVs. Their VAT is lower and they do not charge VRT. Just checked a popular car over there, the Tesla Model Y LR. Here €73K, UK €65K. (And Germany €58K)



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    #113
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182035#Comment_119182035

    Firstly. you've made the same mistake as @AndrewJRenko, manufacturing lines for RHD and LHD vehicles are the same, it takes minimal tooling changes to switch between the two. It's not a case of build a pile of RHD cars and then send them wherever they are asked for. For most manufacturers it's entirely done by country forecasts, i.e. Hyundai Ireland order x number of cars at the beginning of the year. In terms of manufacturing and prioritising orders, once a car is available in RHD and LHD (i.e. the tooling is already available) then there is no point making the distinction between the supply of a RHD and LHD vehicle.

    In terms of your question, absolutely, manufacturers are providing EVs to Western Europe where the purchasing power is higher, and the government support is higher. Manufacturers have EU wide targets and are absolutely selling vehicles to the EU countries where they can make the most profit.



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    #114
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    UK has now fully removed any purchase grant from EVs. Will be interesting to see what happens to purchase numbers.


    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/uk-government-axes-plug-car-grant-immediate-effect



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    #115
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,320 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Saw it a few minutes ago. They seem to be more careful about wasting tax payers money over there.



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    #116
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,931 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    They have much less/no VRT there. The grant was smaller.



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    #117
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200536#Comment_119200536

    I think you mean that money could be diverted to a tory party donor.

    Serious problems over there that are just rearing its ugly head, car sales are down to levels seen in 1992, along with a price increase might sway people from buying any type of car.

    https://www.webdoctor.ie/online-prescriptions/#:~:text=Through%20an%20online%20medical%20questionnaire%2C%20face%2Dto%2Dface%20consultation,to%20booking%20a%20video%20consultation. not affiliated, just being helpful.



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    #118
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Sure EV car tax is free there for years, that would benefit all, also the argument they are past penetration seeing as the Tesla Model 3 was a top seller out of all cars recently

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



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    #119
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,931 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200902#Comment_119200902

    Their grant was only 2.5k and only for below 30k or something anyway so it's not like many BEVs even qualified anymore



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    #120
    eagerv
    Registered Users Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭eagerv


    With the lower VAT and no VRT on cars in the UK it will make the cheapest EVs a little more expensive but the more expensive ones will still be significantly cheaper than here.

    And suits the manufacturers who will probably make more cars available to that market, being able to make more profit from the higher spec models.



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    #121
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200536#Comment_119200536

    They prefer to burn their billions.........not very green either......

    https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1435




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