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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Warwick will be 32 and a half by the time the next World Cup comes along.

    Cian Healy will be 36, and Dave Kilcoyne a couple of months shy of 35.

    Some options besides those two should be explored on this summer tour.

    Andrew Porter is a cert unless he switches back to tight-head,

    Then you have Andy Warwick, Jeremy Loughman, Peter Dooley, Ed Byrne, Josh Wycherley, Eric O’Sullivan.

    Not sure am I forgetting anyone else likely to be called up.

    If I were selecting the squad for the tour I’d take Porter, Healy (mostly for his experience), Warwick, and Loughman.

    Need to see more of Dooley (assuming he’ll be ahead of Buckley), Wycherley (if he can push past Loughman or Kilcoyne) and O’Sullivan (McGrath gone and Reid is young) next season. Don’t see the point calling up Byrne as he won’t be getting regular game time as third choice in Leinster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    A big performance from Moore on Saturday could well put him in the conversation.

    He has good feet, he is an excellent passer, his left foot is a bit of a cultured weapon and he's versatile. Versatility will be important on a 5 match tour of NZ. I wouldn't be that shocked if he did get a call up.

    I'd love to say McIlroy could have an outside chance, but I just fear he is missing half a yard of pace for the top level. Shame as he is a lovely player.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    No, the opposite.

    32 is a good age for a prop, practically in their prime, especially compared with 35/36.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Ah, I'd be amazed if he got called up. I think he's brilliant but he hasn't done enough to be considered amongst Henshaw, Ringtone, Aki, McCloskey, Hume or Frawley. At this stage, there's still part of it that's just potential with Stewart. I mean, he's 22.


    But if he becomes a genuine option at FB (and that doesn't look far-fetched), he'll be capped. He has a lot of natural skill and I would really like to see him become a 12 with a good boot for Ulster. He was very good for us for a significant stretch of last season in McCloskey's absence.


    I would certainly bring him into the Ireland camp before Osbourne, though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    They will likely bring a big squad. I don't think it's very likely, but I wouldn't rule it out completely. But certainly as you say if Osborne is being discussed (and I rate him very highly) then so should Moore, even more so really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    And if McIlroy can do something about squeezing a bit of extra pace out of those feet, he's laughing. He's 21, has 36 caps, has started European games against serious opposition home and away - he has so many good qualities and is comfortable at FB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    32 is a good age for a prop who's already a proven operator. It's very old for a guy with zero caps to be coming into test rugby.

    Still, we're not bating props away with a stick so maybe he's worth a look.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,832 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Warwick?

    IMO just another decent player who is going through a temporary spell of form. His opportunity for a token cap has gone, be amazed if he's selected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    I was disappointed for him how "easily" (relatively of course) he was caught on his breakaway against Munster alright.

    He's got great feet, lovely hands, capable of putting in a massive hit and is a bit of an all around wing. But watching him get snagged there all I could think was there are a lot of his peers who'd have stuck the afterburners on alright and run away with it



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I watched the highlights again and he slowed to give the pass to Moore. I don't know if he doesn't have the pace or doesn't have confidence to hit the white line. He has excellent awareness - he saved Ulster's blushes defensively a couple of times this season by popping up in just the right places - but I wonder is his preference always to put someone else away. It's weird.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I think we have to assume Healy and Kilcoyne will be past it by October 2023.

    We have to give younger players some opportunities to show what they can do.

    Jack McGrath is also gone.

    So, assuming Porter keeps improving and is there as a loose-head prop come the World Cup, we need to develop two more loose-heads.

    As a prerequisite, I’d look around the provinces to see who’s getting game time and performing.

    Leinster have Ed Byrne but if he’s not getting regular game time then that should count him out.

    Ulster are doing great, Warwick is consistently being selected ahead of O’Sullivan, and Warwick will be young enough to play a part in the World Cup then he would be top of my list to give him some game time on this tour to see if he’s capable of holding his own.

    Next in line I’d look at Loughman, he’s big and strong, a bit younger, he’d be 28 at the World Cup. He’s put in some good performances over the past couple of seasons.

    Then for next season I’d hope to see Dooley push on for Connacht and become another good option. He’ll be 29 by the time of the World Cup.

    Then I’d look at Eric O’Sullivan if hee can get enough game time.

    After that the prospects are much younger, Wycherley, Reid, Milne, Burke. If any of them can get game time and impress they might have a shot but they don’t have much time.

    Wycherley is the only one that could possibly get a call up as he played a few important games for Munster. Not sure he’s done enough though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    So he’s the anti-Larmour is what you’re saying?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    That McIlroy thing is textbook tying up. He doesn't trust his pace and tries too hard and runs out of legs. He needs to work on relaxation, on his running mechanics and on speed endurance. Then maybe he'd be conditioned to run at top speed for 100m rather than for 30m.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,820 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Never really thought Stockdale or Gilroy were slow to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,931 ✭✭✭jacothelad




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    A lack of top end pace in the back three has been a problem for years. It's the one area we've always struggled with. The last genuine speedster I can remember Ireland having is Denis Hickie. And he last played for Ireland in 2007.

    We've had many fine outside backs in the time since then, some broaching on world class like Bowe and Kearney. But it was always the more technical aspects of their game which got them there, rather than pure athleticism. In general you'd rather have the former, but sometimes you just can't beat out and out speed. It terrifies defences and gives an element of unpredictability that no amount of pre-match analysis can prepare you for.

    Earls, Stockdale, Zebo, Fitzgerald et al were and are quick players. But imo none have the top end speed of a Watson, May, Teddy Thomas etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I think Molony's best chance of making it would be if Beirne doens't get back in time. Farrell likes selecting for athleticism, because the need to have athletic players is more pressing at international level. You see selections like Harry ahead of Ross Byrne and O'Toole ahead of Moore. So, I think he would go for Treadwell ahead of Molony. But if Beirne is absent there will be a free slot if they take 6 locks, which I think they will if the squad is as big as it's rumoured to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭CptMonkey


    On the back of Leinsters loss today. Have ireland been found out? Ireland are 80% Leinster and we have sexton who probably has year left till the World Cup.


    We have no 10s coming up that are near the quality of sexton. And our front row of the scrum and been struggling. Could be a similar World Cup to the last one. Utter disappointment



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Depends entirely on how you consider Leinster to have been "found out."

    The set piece against La Rochelle and now the Bulls has been the biggest issue. I've never seen our lineout dismantled like that. Against the French side we had more success, but they also disrupted a few. However, these are things which can be fixed and I've no doubt POC and Farrell will analyse Leinsters issues thoroughly.

    Physicality wasn't the issue against La Rochelle so much as accuracy in play. Hopefully that's something which can also be fixed with some tweaks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Until the demographic of Irish rugby significantly changes, this will keep happening to Leinster and Ireland when it comes to the crunch.

    Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, and whenever Leinster or Ireland get punched in the face, they crumble to pieces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭CptMonkey


    Hopefully. Just feels a bit deja view. Think Leinster struggled with the physicality of La Rochelle and the bulls. Ireland could be the same against similar teams



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    There's definitely an aspect of Leinster weakening in the final 20 and struggling for a plan B if they can't get a big lead from the initial gameplan that we've also seen with Ireland.

    Both teams are honestly unfamiliar with an actual arm wrestle of a contest, it happens so seldom and they struggle when someone can bring it. French teams live in that environment every week but Leinster even in Europe will be out of sight after 60 minutes 90% of the time. It's a problem for sure.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,893 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    Leinster did not struggle with the physicality of LAR. They won the collisions as per the stats. And physicality doesn't win lineouts which is what killed Leinster against the Bulls for a large part.

    Leinster's problem in both games was when things started going against plan they panicked and started dropping balls and throwing silly passes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Roxxers


    conan will be in dubai after tonite highly rated but doesn't perform on the big days



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Why now and not after losing to Saracens in 2019, 2020 and La Rochelle last season? Leinster weren't any better those years. They were just able to bully everyone else in the league up until the SA teams were added.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Shehal


    They've been found out if they don't fix the problem...continuing to check out the minute someone punches them in the face isnt good enough for any team let alone a team that wants to perceive itself as a RWC contender.



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