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Drag Shows for Kids

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,440 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Think you replied to the wrong poster here....? I've not made any assertions of the type you highlight here, so can't difect you anywhere....

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,067 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Well it is being used to make comments attacking trans people and trans rights and trans children.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    Do you have any comment to make on the photos in the first post?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,982 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    😂😂😂 I'm putting in a request to Boards Admin to introduce a special thank you button x1000

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,982 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Whilst slightly off topic there's a connection.

    Anyone who had the misfortune to be listening to da Liveline over the past two days is probably recovering from a migraine or deep bout of confusion.

    It was possibly the most incoherent, babbling confusing nonsense ever broadcast on Irish Radio, the Cawlurs both Trans, Straight or unhinged were as confused about what they are or what they want as Joe Duffy who was just, well all over the place.

    How in heavens name the Callers expected listener's to understand what was going on when they themselves are confused and entrenched was a complete mystery.

    The OP's link was shared on the Live line thread and honestly words escape me. Part of the discussion involved a football coach discussing what his club are doing around the Topic of inclusion being sensitive around children who perhaps are too young to come out, changing rooms, toilets etc, Girls playing with boys, honestly I thought he was coaching in a counselling clinic and not a soccer club.

    The world has gone quite woke mad. I say, all to their own but my god arguments on both sides of the Trans, LGBT and Straight arguments are becoming quite militant and disturbing, people are infact growing further apart than ever.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Any criticism, at all, is considered an attack on Trans people, and trans rights.. Those advocating for Trans people have made them the most sensitive, and persecuted group in all of humanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,982 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,067 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    🤣🤣🤣🤣 - posts like this expressing shock that drag exists and telling us that all white gay men reject drag and then to rail against attention seeking in an attention seeking manner - Yeah this is great comedy. How much do you charge.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If that is the case, the best course of action would be to report those posts because the vast vast majority of posts on this thread have been about drag and the involvement of children.

    Funnily enough it's the people/person who would claim to be an "ally" who are the most disparaging about trans people in this thread and are the ones attempting to make it about trans people in order to stifle conversation



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He was clearly making a more nuanced point that not all LGBT people love drag. And that's fine. We might be a community but there are clearly people with different interests and opinions on matters relating to it. Nothing controversial there at all.

    What's striking @Annasopra is that I don't believe you have condemned the kind of activity we've seen happen to these children. Your focus appears to be targeting people's criticisms of it or some other, pretty pedantic matter.

    But why not come out and express your views on the subject matter of the thread itself?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,891 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    He has no problem at all with naked adults hanging around with children. Says a lot about him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,037 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Should a naked man be posing next to a child?

    Asking that question doesn't mean that you have some sort of problem with LGBTQ people. It's a reasonable question about what is appropriate for children.

    Take away the wig and make up, make the man heterosexual, should he then be posing next to a child with his exposed genitals?

    The level of absolute insanity on this thread is bordering on the unbelievable.

    Drag isn't the same as panto dames, children shouldn't be encouraged to take part in overtly sexual entertainment.

    This is an issue that boils LGBTQ people down to latently sexualised caricatures that exist only to express their sexuality, but somehow its empowering and wonderful.

    I thought society had moved beyond this, how anyone advocating for LGBTQ rights can put any weight behind this is mind boggling.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Andrew doesn't support " the sexualisation of children " but like a lot of progressives, he is loathe to be seen to cede anything which he perceives to be a conservative viewpoint

    Their dedication to that cause inevitably hits a wall of moral dilemmas



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,037 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Thinking a bit more about this maybe the question that needs to be asked is, how do children benefit from watching a drag show?

    In what way is a child's life improved by seeing a man dressed as a woman, having money stuffed into thier underwear and eventually removing all their clothing an exposing thier genitalia to the children?

    What is the lesson here? All LGBTQ people are simply objects to be treated in a dehumanizing manner? Taking your clothes off for money is a career you should aspire to in adult life?

    Who benefits from this?

    From any logical position it seems like everyone loses.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Astartes


    MAP = Minor Attracted Person is what they call themselves now.

    Coming to a national school near you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭sekiro


    Yes, and don't you think our society could have benefitted from being just a little bit more vigilant around people from the church? Sure, they aren't all bad but the attitude of deny and deflect allowed the abuse to become so widespread. By the time the truth came out it was far too late. I'm sure in villages and towns across the country some of the stuff going on was basically an open secret but nobody could fight against it because they'd be shouted down and maybe even ostracised.

    So when post 1 is an example of some pretty dodgy stuff and post 2 is an immediate full house of deny, dismiss, downplay and whataboutery then I think it's fair for people to wonder what the hell is going on here.

    People who have probably been screeching about Donald Trump since around 2014 suddenly very willing to say if it isn't happening here then it isn't relevant.

    I just wonder why some people are so utterly afraid to speak up that they'll even go as far as pretending that there simply isn't an issue? How far would things have to go before we can say "I'm all for trolling right wing people but this is too far"?

    Turning a blind eye to pretty horrible stuff in order to protect the community will ultimately end very very badly. Better to just rip the band-aid off now and admit there is an issue.

    How can you make the point about the church and not also see the parallels? Are you really so blind? Or just stubborn?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    It’s this level of insanity why I’m reluctant to get involved. Talking ourselves into a tizzy, if they weren’t given the oxygen this stuff wouldn’t thrive but here we are entertaining it instead of being entertained -

    it is; after all a clown show lest we forget. Seems a lot of folk with nothing more to do, but f*ck heads and derail their respective society previously they were shunned to their confines weak as these oddities were but now t’internet. Revelling in the anonymity with things they wouldn’t dare say bashing away furiously on their devices. Not least Ireland, I struggle to find public fora of other countries where their citizens are found to be at loggerheads so on every topic under the sun it’s quite revealing. Only ever talking ourselves into trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,440 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Just to clarfiy, I've already condemned this photo andt I feel like I'm pointing out that the Emperor's not wearing any clothes, here; but: that's not actually a drag act.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No surprise that people have been avoiding this photo from the outset.

    There's nothing wrong with drag, but there's a spectrum to this. On one extreme you have men dressed as old ladies in panto, in the middle you have Panti Bliss, at the other extreme you have this picture, which is a naked man standing next to a child.

    Is there a need to say more than this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,440 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The photo is of a little boy in drag with a naked adult drag artist.

    If that has nothing to do with the topic, what does?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It looks like drag from the neck up. I guess he forgot the rest of the attire?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    How can you make the point about the church and not also see the parallels? Are you really so blind? Or just stubborn?

    I've always been of the belief that certain people never really cared about what the church did, they were just happy to have a way to remove them from power, and take the power themselves. You can see this clearly on any threads about "sexual education", where the same people who feigned outraged about the church's indoctrination of children, now promote their own variety of indoctrination.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    All you ever do is attention seeking on these threads so that's rich coming from you, one of the most insufferable TRAS on this site. What's your opinion on the pedo in that picture with his dick out next to a child? Suppose you'll brand me a phobe or ist like you do by default for asking that but try answer the question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,037 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I'll clarify that I have no issue with drag, great craic and all that but it's not child friendly, no more than any other explicitly adult entertainment of any hue.

    That isn't drag? I think once it entered the realm of being performed in front of children it became something other than drag that is sadly very damaging to any normal LGBTQ person.

    How anyone can defend this, especially LGBTQ people astonishes me.

    For years being gay was equated with being a paedophile and now this is what's being pushed as beneficial for LGBTQ people?

    If I was gay I'd find it deeply disappointing that this type of bizarre nonsense is being legitimized in any way shape or form.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭sekiro


    If it's just coming to the school and reading a book to the kids then I don't see too much of a big deal. Good for the kids if it promotes reading and if there's some kind of inspirational element then good too. It's a funny person in a funny costume going to read them a story no big deal.

    I suppose the question then is why Drag Queens specifically? Could kind of understand if the kids are getting a sci-fi story you might have a dude dressed as an astronaut or a lady dressed as an alien etc. Some book about dangerous animals and the narrator is dressed like Steve Irwin, I get it. Why specifically Drag Queens and why the coordination across the US, Canada, UK, Australia etc? This one specific thing suddenly became very important have in schools, for some reason.

    The first red flag would be if this is some kind of attempt to "disrupt" the students thinking. The vast majority of these kids would have a mum and a dad, aunts and uncles, grandparents and would on a basic level understand that you have come from your parents and that your relatives are quite easily distinguishable as a man or a woman. The idea of needing to interfere with this or disrupt it is a little bit strange. Yes, we want kids to acknowledge that people can be different and we want them to be caring and to be good people but the idea of actively attempting to shake things up is just really suspicious.

    The second red flag for me is then going to be things like trying to keep the content of these events secret from parents or even just the public at large. Parents excluded from events, events being done without parents permission. People immediately trying to shut down the conversation when someone suggests there might be an issue. That's all just a little bit too strange. If there's any lack of transparency or attempt to obscure then for me there's a problem.

    Third red flag is that with all of the above combined if the themes or topics of conversation are things specifically around sex and sexuality then we've probably got a major issue here. Why does it have to be this topic specifically? It just seems like the exact type of thing that would drive a wedge between the parents, the teachers and the kids themselves.

    Ah, I'm sure it'll all be fine. Sure we used to let the church into the schools and let them indoctrinate the kids and gave them access and trusted them and that worked out OK, didn't it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    I’ve been to dozens of drag shows in bars around the world and never once saw any nudity or money being stuffed in underwear.


    Where does this happen?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Note that most people in the LGBT community do not approve of extremism like that.

    As always, it's a fringe minority that either downplays it or pretends it doesn't exist or who try to deflect attention away rather than admitting this is a genuine issue.

    I've spoken about this issue to my boyfriend and other gay people - and 100% were against it.

    That's why it's so frustrating to see the same people on this thread trying to explain the problem away or to derail or distract or obfuscate or throw around isms and phobias.

    If there's ever an issue that you would think would command universal consensus on this subforum, it would be the protection of children. Yet all a certain group would rather do is turn it into a political battle against people they politically disagree with.

    Not everything has to be a political battle. Some things are just wrong. And what was going on at those child drag events is totally unjustifiable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,059 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    And by 'own variety of indoctrination' you mean 'fact based education', right? Shocking isn't it?

    Don't get me started on the clown shows.

    The thread topic is 'drag shows for kids'. The photo is nothing to do with drag shows for kids.

    You're absolutely right, people should definitely wonder 'what the hell is going on here'. They should wonder why photos that have nothing to do with drag shows for kids are being used in a thread about drag shows for kids. They should wonder why posters are posting links from extremely dodgy, extremely right wing sites, set up and funded for sole purpose of bringing hate onto vulnerable communities, as supposedly credible sources. Keep wondering.

    It's fascinating to see how, just like the OP, posters have to make up stuff with absolutely no basis to have something to complain about.

    It's fascinating to see how, just like the OP, posters have to make up stuff with absolutely no basis to have something to complain about.

    Not in my experience. In my experience, attacks on trans people are considered to be attacks on trans people. If you find lots of people telling you that you're attacking trans people, maybe that's because you're attacking trans people.

    Are you saying that sports coaches in general shouldn't be aware of the needs of all the children in their classes.

    What is this need for declarations of condemnation all about? Is this some new trend, that posters are somehow unworthy if they don't come with explicit condemnations up to the standards of the angry mob?

    What exactly is inherently sexual about a drag queen identity? What is 'just weird' about people wearing different clothes to you?

    Is it possible that you're slightly exaggerating your exclusion from pride? The photos I saw from last year included lots of 'normal gay white men', lots of 'normal' straight white men and women too.

    Why would the modern form of drag NOT be taliored towards kids? What is your principled problem with age-appropriate drag shows for kids?


    'quite a serious issue' taken from an extremely dodgy site with extremely dodgy material, topped off with the inevitable right wing grift. What we're laying the groundwork for here is a backlash against LGBT people. We've definitely seen the like of that before, and we've seen the results of it in violent attacks on the streets of Ireland.

    Why would I have any interest in looking at a site this is explicitly designed and funded to stir up hatred against LGBT people. This is the standard far-right tactic of shouting 'paedo' at anyone who doesn't meet their own particular straightness standards. We see it from Trump/QAnon fans with their hysterical Pizzagate nonsense, we see from Tommy Fournames and his supporters in the UK, we see it from the National Party calling for the hanging of a gay Government minister in Dublin, and we see it on this thread. A man is known by the company he keeps.

    Drag isn't the same as panto dames, just as this photo isn't the same as drag, and has absolutely nothing to do with the thread subject of drag shows for kids.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who benefits from this?

    From any logical position it seems like everyone loses.

    Misery loves company. I think the point is to increase the numbers of people who identify as Trans by any means possible (which is why being Trans covers so many forms of Identity although they're starting to break off into their own groups now). Drag is a good way to promote Trans beliefs because we've already had decades of oppression against homosexuality challenged, and cast down as inappropriate.

    Adults who are comfortable with their sex, and have formed their own identity through life experience, are hard to convince... quite often feeling buyers remorse over becoming trans, and reverting a few years later.

    Whereas teens and children are far easier to convince that they're x, y, z. After all, who wouldn't like to live a life where social boundaries, and society's rules don't apply? And with children, who have no comprehension of sexual orientation, physical urges/impulses or whatever, the appeal of dressing up whatever way they want, and again, avoiding many of the rules/boundaries in society, would likely be quite appealing if framed the right way. I remember well the confusion and frustration of being a teen, and if someone had come along saying that I could be whatever I wanted, and nobody could judge me? In fact, they had to support and protect me for being "different"? Hell, yeah.. sign me up.

    I don't think any of this relates to benefiting children/teens/adults. TBH from what I gather there's zero interest in what happens to Trans people in the long term, instead, everything is about the transition, and a few years following... with interest dropping off considerably about everything after that. Except, where it's hard for them to integrate or whatever with society. After all, if you spend your time finding ways to separate yourself from mainstream society, pointing out and reinforcing those differences to others (demanding pronouns being a good example here), then obviously it's going to be difficult to have people completely accept you later. Alas, few seem to want to accept that, so society should simply fold over and adjust depending on what Trans people want at that given moment.

    Trans advocates fit in well with a variety of other social movements we've seen over the last few decades.. all aimed at breaking down the social conventions, norms, boundaries, taboos, etc. Sometimes these boundaries are replaced with something else, but more often than not, society is simply expected to turn out perfectly without such frameworks. Wishful thinking is enough, when everyone is free to do whatever they wish. Although then again, everyone isn't free to do whatever they wish.. just the people who belong to <insert> "disadvantaged" group. Negative consequences are never to be connected with the social changes or the chosen groups, but rather rest solely on the remainder of the population who are not enlightened. All criticism is to be attacked, but ultimately dismissed, because nothing negative can ever be acknowledged about the chosen group.

    So, break down all our acceptable social norms.. everyone be free! Woohoo..



This discussion has been closed.
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